[Culturechat] Burned bridges

Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:14:47 +0200

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No, I am not French, although I have been living in France for 25 years =
I
have retained my American citizenship and only that, despite the fact =
that
it means that I cannot vote in local elections and therefore cannot even
vote for my husband who is the mayor of our town.  But that=92s =
patriotism for
you=85

Concerning Alsatian history,  it=92s not as simple as it looks either =
you
would be ill advised indeed to say to an Alsatian that he =93isn=92t =
really
French=94 but I=92ll go into that some other time. In a land that has =
suffered
so often from being a battleground and today is resolutely turned =
towards
the building of =93Europe=94 they are sensitive to many issues.=20

I noticed with interest the posting by the gentleman about the religious
aspect of the Irak conflict. In our local paper today there was on one =
side
of the page the editorial that spoke of the rise of the chiite religious
leaders and their vying for power in Irak and on the other side of the =
page
an article by a local protestant official describing American =
fundamentalism
and the dangers of its methods.  It is a real concern here to see the =
rise
of these two extremes.=20

=20

Vivianne

=20

-----Message d'origine-----
De : culturechat-admin@untours.com =
[mailto:culturechat-admin@untours.com] De
la part de Marlene Rodgers
Envoy=E9 : mardi 22 avril 2003 19:56
=C0 : culturechat@untours.com
Objet : Re: RE : [Culturechat] Burned bridges

=20

My like? I am not even sure what my like is. I am sure I don't know what
your like is. I probably would agree with you on many things and other
things not but I do know we miss too much, there are too many subtleties =
and
complexities in people, to lump them into "the likes of them". Perhaps =
it
sounds cliche, you may say PC, but I do know that it is always a mistake =
to
make such generalities about people or groups of people. Most of us do =
it to
some degree but it is never wise and I believe we should at least make =
some
attempt at restraining this beastly tendency.=20
Yes, I am quite sure you could show me patronizing but I would rather =
you
not. Perhaps arrogant and dismissive would have been better words but it
sounded more harsh than I had wanted.

Marlene

"That would be a good idea." -Gandhi, asked by a reporter for his =
opinion of
Western Civilization.

On Tuesday, April 22, 2003, at 12:35 PM, VCR wrote:

My first reaction Vance, on your comment that you found it nice to see
Vivianne not mad all the time was oh, that is a bit patronizing. I know =
that
is how I would feel to have that said to me.

The only time I met Vivianne, she was quite pleasant. She is biased with
reason. She lives in France and is likely more French than American by =
now.
That's her problem not ours. I enjoy Alsace because it isn't really =
French.
The Alsatians are Alsatian first and French second. Read their history. =
They
have been German in odd years and French in even.

Patronizing?? I can show you patronizing. Neither her comment to me nor =
mine
to her was patronizing. I don't expect to change you or your like =
anyway.

BTW, we just spent a day in Gruyere. They speak French, German, English, =
and
God knows what without looking down their noses at anyone.

--=20
Vance Roy
gigli.saw@dplanet.ch

Autopsy, burn, and bury, you want to be sure.
Winston Churchill on hearing of the death of a political opponent.

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No,
I am not French, although I have been living in France for 25 =
years I have
retained my American citizenship and only that, despite the fact that it =
means
that I cannot vote in local elections and therefore cannot even vote for =
my
husband who is the mayor of our town. =A0But that&#8217;s patriotism for =
you&#8230;

Concerning
Alsatian history,=A0 it&#8217;s not as simple as it looks either you =
would be ill
advised indeed to say to an Alsatian that he &#8220;isn&#8217;t really =
French&#8221;
but I&#8217;ll go into that some other time. In a land that has suffered =
so
often from being a battleground and today is resolutely turned towards =
the
building of &#8220;Europe&#8221; they are sensitive to many issues. =

I
noticed with interest the posting by the gentleman about the religious =
aspect
of the Irak conflict. In our local paper today there was on one side of =
the
page the editorial that spoke of the rise of the chiite religious =
leaders and their
vying for power in Irak and on the other side of the page an article by =
a local
protestant official describing American fundamentalism and the dangers =
of its
methods. =A0It is a real concern here to see the rise of these two =
extremes.

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Californian =
FB"><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Californian =
FB";color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Californian =
FB"><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Californian =
FB";color:blue'>Vivianne</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Californian =
FB"><span
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Californian =
FB";color:blue'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Message =
d'origine-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>De&nbsp;:</span></b>
culturechat-admin@untours.com [mailto:culturechat-admin@untours.com] =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>De la part de</span></b> Marlene Rodgers<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</span></b> mardi 22 =
avril 2003
19:56<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>=C0&nbsp;:</span></b> =
culturechat@untours.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Objet&nbsp;:</span></b> Re: RE :
[Culturechat] Burned bridges</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:35.4pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
35.4pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>My
like? I am not even sure what my like is. I am sure I don't know what =
your like
is. I probably would agree with you on many things and other things not =
but I
do know we miss too much, there are too many subtleties and complexities =
in
people, to lump them into &quot;the likes of them&quot;. Perhaps it =
sounds
cliche, you may say PC, but I do know that it is always a mistake to =
make such
generalities about people or groups of people. Most of us do it to some =
degree
but it is never wise and I believe we should at least make some attempt =
at
restraining this beastly tendency. <br>
Yes, I am quite sure you could show me patronizing but I would rather =
you not.
Perhaps arrogant and dismissive would have been better words but it =
sounded
more harsh than I had wanted.<br>
<br>
Marlene<br>
<br>
<br>
<?color><?param 0000,0000,DDD9>&quot;That would be a good idea.&quot; =
-Gandhi,
asked by a reporter for his opinion of Western Civilization.<br>
<?/color><br>
On Tuesday, April 22, 2003, at 12:35 PM, VCR wrote:</span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

My first reaction Vance, on your comment that you found it nice to see =
Vivianne
not mad all the time was oh, that is a bit patronizing. I know that is =
how I
would feel to have that said to me.

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
35.4pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
The only time I met Vivianne, she was quite pleasant. She is biased with
reason. She lives in France and is likely more French than American by =
now.
That's her problem not ours. I enjoy Alsace because it isn't really =
French. The
Alsatians are Alsatian first and French second. Read their history. They =
have
been German in odd years and French in even.<br>
<br>
Patronizing?? I can show you patronizing. Neither her comment to me nor =
mine to
her was patronizing. I don't expect to change you or your like =
anyway.<br>
<br>
BTW, we just spent a day in Gruyere. They speak French, German, English, =
and
God knows what without looking down their noses at anyone.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Vance Roy<br>
gigli.saw@dplanet.ch<br>
<br>
Autopsy, burn, and bury, you want to be sure.<br>
Winston Churchill on hearing of the death of a political opponent.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

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