[Culturechat] RE: [Idyllchat] DSL

Wed, 10 May 2006 14:50:50 -0700

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Contrary to some of the dialog going on; I have enjoyed improving my
understanding of the differences and issues between cable & DSL.  I felt
comfortable with learning about it here because these are 2 available
options that we have to use to be on the list.  Thanks for the discussion.

Alan Strong

astrongone@comcast.net 

-----Original Message-----
From: idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com
[mailto:idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Clancy
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:00 PM
To: Russ Crum; culturechat@lists.untours.com
Cc: Brian Cooley; Idyll Chat
Subject: Re: [Idyllchat] DSL

Russ,

See the interspersed notes below.

At 10:24 PM 5/9/2006, Russ Crum wrote:

>You may have the credentials to tout much of what you claim (e.g. 

>chaired the IEEE 802 standards committee).

Well, it's actually a bit more than that. Subsequent to that I was a 

member of two different municipal cable TV committees for several 

years in Minnesota and chairman of another one here in Jersey. In 

between those appointments I was a vp of engineering for a division 

of what is now Time-Warner that was responsible for developing the 

delivery of home electronic services and full-motion video on demand 

to the cable systems.

>However, I think many of your statements do not hold up to scrutiny. 

>I have DSL even though I could have Comcast, which has it's own host 

>of problems since it is the 500 pound gorilla in the area. I 

>regularly check my speed using the same web sites that the everyone 

>else can use. e.g. Megapath, Speakeasy. My download speed normally 

>comes in at 1.8-2.3 Mbps and upload speeds at 420-440 kbps. Those 

>are a far cry from the 100 Kbps that you claim DSL actually 

>provides!! Incidentally, I do not have "pro" level of DSL service 

>available and also pay only about 1/2 as much as Comcast subscribers 

>do. Admittedly, the cable service is faster, but I really don't feel 

>deprived at the speeds I have. Incidentally, we have two and 

>sometimes three computers running on the internet simultaneously at 

>my home with these speeds. FYI, I am about 13,000 feet from the C.O.

I never said DSL can't perform but, to do so, some of the typical 

variables have to change to get decent performance at longer 

distances, for example: high-speed trunking between the C.O. and the 

neighborhood distribution hubs; the addition of repeaters and 

amplifiers (which introduce noise and therefore packet error rates); 

new builds (ie, in relatively new developments) or rebuilds (new 

wire) or conditioned lines; newer modems with more sophisticated and 

higher performing modulation techniques. In some urban, high-rise and 

dense suburban situations, where the high number of potential drops 

can justify the cost of new wire and equipment, the phone company may 

do this and the result is nice, clean, heavier-duty copper. Do some 

or all of these things and you can achieve higher transmission rates. 

However, this is far from typical, particularly for older (20+ years) 

suburban neighborhoods where the phone companies have been loathe to 

rebuild, particularly "the last mile".

The problem is, given the limitations of twisted pairs,  it never 

made economic sense for the companies to do this ( the same reason 

you rarely ever see "overbuilds" with a second cable company coming 

into the same area). So they were stuck trying to compete with cable 

using, in some cases, a 50-year-old infrastructure. The result was 

DSL performance in those neighborhoods that was so-so to poor to 

non-existent. In our case, about 10,000 feet or so from the C.O., the 

copper was so bad it all had to be replaced several years ago, and 

this was a 23-year-old neighborhood with underground utilities (cable 

and phone), and it still can't support DSL. And our Trenton office 

which did use DSL for several years found it troublesome to install 

and maintain, with so-so service and expensive (business rates). Of 

course, with cable now threatening their core business, Verizon is 

now hell bent for leather building new fiber networks to the 

consumer. If DSL were enough, they wouldn't be doing this.

>In your rant you also failed to mention the technical issue of cable 

>subscribers sharing a fixed bandwidth in their areas. I have had 

>several Comcast subscribers mention to me the noticeable slowdown in 

>their internet service in the evenings when other subscribers on 

>their local net come on line. That is an issue that DSL people do 

>not have to deal with.

A fair point that can be a problem in a badly-engineered system with 

too many drops per trunk/link. In fact, it happened here some 5-6 

years ago and Comcast split the trunk so that each one now has only 

half the drops it did before and this has not been an issue since. In 

a properly designed plant this shouldn't be a significant issue. 

There is a trend, however, to much more bandwidth-intensive 

applications like video clips.

It also raises some questions regarding the efficacy of phone service 

over cable. Essentially, you are placing an inherently synchronous 

service inside a distinctly asynchronous one, and one (CSMA/CD, or 

"Ethernet") which tends to have disastrous response times under heavy 

loading (say, 50% of capacity). If the "voice packets" can't get out 

in time due to local loading, they don't make it in time to get 

reassembled at the destination, so they get dropped and you start 

sounding like you're talking from the moon. Yes, it's cheaper but I'm 

in a wait-and-see mode on this one.

By the way, you missed one of the real selling points for DSL: 

security. The "star" nature of the topology means that no one is 

sharing your line (or, more accurately, circuit), unlike cable where 

all the neighborhood packets fly by your modem, allowing "packet 

sniffer" software to read them. Rarely a problem, but it's one of the 

reasons you should never put credit card info in emails or unsecured 

HTTP (browser) connections. Of course, this advantage could well 

disappear in the newer fiber builds depending upon how they are 

implemented, particularly in the "last mile" (does everyone get their 

own personal strand or tap into a common one?).

>One of the reasons I chose DSL was the ability to dial in with our 

>laptop from almost anywhere in the US when we are traveling. I don't 

>know if that has changed, but at the time I signed up for DSL, that 

>was not an option for Comcast subscribers.

I haven't checked this but, as I recall, I can access my mail now 

from any browser anywhere. In my case it's moot because, instead, I 

use a VPN (virtual private network) to "take over" my entire system 

from any remote browser when I'm away.

Bottom line is this:

* Yours in not, IMHO, the typical suburban experience

* Irrespective of price, DSL trumps voice modems

* Cable trumps DSL

* T-1 and T-3, partial or otherwise, trumps cable (but is priced
prohibitively)

I've copied the Idyll CultureChat group so you could reply there 

because, should anyone wish to continue this thread, I suggest it be 

done there so we don't further bore or confuse the heck out of everyone
else.

Jerry

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<p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century Schoolbook"><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Contrary
to some of the dialog going on; I have enjoyed improving my =
understanding of
the differences and issues between cable &amp; DSL.&nbsp; I felt =
comfortable
with learning about it here because these are 2 available options that =
we have
to use to be on the list.&nbsp; Thanks for the =
discussion.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Alan Strong</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a =
href=3D"mailto:astrongone@comcast.net">astrongone@comcast.net</a>
</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com
[mailto:idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Clancy<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:00 PM<br>
To: Russ Crum; culturechat@lists.untours.com<br>
Cc: Brian Cooley; Idyll Chat<br>
Subject: Re: [Idyllchat] DSL</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Russ,</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>See the interspersed notes =
below.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>At 10:24 PM 5/9/2006, Russ Crum =
wrote:</span></font></b></p>

&gt;You may have the credentials to tout much =
of what
you claim (e.g.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;chaired the IEEE 802 standards =
committee).</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

Well, it's actually a bit more than that. =
Subsequent
to that I was a

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>member of two different municipal cable TV =
committees
for several </span></font></b></p>

years in Minnesota and chairman of another =
one here in
Jersey. In

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>between those appointments I was a vp of =
engineering
for a division </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>of what is now Time-Warner that was =
responsible for
developing the </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>delivery of home electronic services and =
full-motion
video on demand </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>to the cable systems.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

&gt;However, I think many of your statements =
do not
hold up to scrutiny.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;I have DSL even though I could have =
Comcast, which
has it's own host </span></font></b></p>

&gt;of problems since it is the 500 pound =
gorilla in
the area. I

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;regularly check my speed using the same =
web sites
that the everyone </span></font></b></p>

&gt;else can use. e.g. Megapath, Speakeasy. =
My
download speed normally

&gt;comes in at 1.8-2.3 Mbps and upload =
speeds at
420-440 kbps. Those

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;are a far cry from the 100 Kbps that you =
claim DSL
actually </span></font></b></p>

&gt;provides!! Incidentally, I do not have
&quot;pro&quot; level of DSL service

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;available and also pay only about 1/2 as =
much as
Comcast subscribers </span></font></b></p>

&gt;do. Admittedly, the cable service is =
faster, but I
really don't feel

&gt;deprived at the speeds I have. =
Incidentally, we
have two and

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;sometimes three computers running on the =
internet
simultaneously at </span></font></b></p>

&gt;my home with these speeds. FYI, I am =
about 13,000
feet from the C.O.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I never said DSL can't perform but, to do so, =
some of
the typical </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>variables have to change to get decent =
performance at
longer </span></font></b></p>

distances, for example: high-speed trunking =
between
the C.O. and the

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>neighborhood distribution hubs; the addition =
of
repeaters and </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>amplifiers (which introduce noise and =
therefore packet
error rates); </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>new builds (ie, in relatively new =
developments) or
rebuilds (new </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>wire) or conditioned lines; newer modems with =
more
sophisticated and </span></font></b></p>

higher performing modulation techniques. In =
some
urban, high-rise and

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>dense suburban situations, where the high =
number of
potential drops </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>can justify the cost of new wire and =
equipment, the
phone company may </span></font></b></p>

do this and the result is nice, clean, =
heavier-duty
copper. Do some

or all of these things and you can achieve =
higher
transmission rates.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>However, this is far from typical, =
particularly for
older (20+ years) </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>suburban neighborhoods where the phone =
companies have
been loathe to </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>rebuild, particularly &quot;the last =
mile&quot;.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>The problem is, given the limitations of =
twisted
pairs,&nbsp; it never </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>made economic sense for the companies to do =
this ( the
same reason </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>you rarely ever see &quot;overbuilds&quot; =
with a
second cable company coming </span></font></b></p>

into the same area). So they were stuck =
trying to
compete with cable

using, in some cases, a 50-year-old =
infrastructure.
The result was

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>DSL performance in those neighborhoods that =
was so-so
to poor to </span></font></b></p>

non-existent. In our case, about 10,000 feet =
or so
from the C.O., the

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>copper was so bad it all had to be replaced =
several
years ago, and </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>this was a 23-year-old neighborhood with =
underground
utilities (cable </span></font></b></p>

and phone), and it still can't support DSL. =
And our
Trenton office

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>which did use DSL for several years found it
troublesome to install </span></font></b></p>

and maintain, with so-so service and =
expensive
(business rates). Of

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>course, with cable now threatening their core
business, Verizon is </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>now hell bent for leather building new fiber =
networks
to the </span></font></b></p>

consumer. If DSL were enough, they wouldn't =
be doing
this.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;In your rant you also failed to mention =
the
technical issue of cable </span></font></b></p>

&gt;subscribers sharing a fixed bandwidth in =
their
areas. I have had

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;several Comcast subscribers mention to me =
the
noticeable slowdown in </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;their internet service in the evenings =
when other
subscribers on </span></font></b></p>

&gt;their local net come on line. That is an =
issue
that DSL people do

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;not have to deal =
with.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>A fair point that can be a problem in a
badly-engineered system with </span></font></b></p>

too many drops per trunk/link. In fact, it =
happened
here some 5-6

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>years ago and Comcast split the trunk so that =
each one
now has only </span></font></b></p>

half the drops it did before and this has not =
been an
issue since. In

a properly designed plant this shouldn't be a
significant issue.

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>There is a trend, however, to much more
bandwidth-intensive </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>applications like video =
clips.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>It also raises some questions regarding the =
efficacy
of phone service </span></font></b></p>

over cable. Essentially, you are placing an =
inherently
synchronous

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>service inside a distinctly asynchronous one, =
and one
(CSMA/CD, or </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&quot;Ethernet&quot;) which tends to have =
disastrous
response times under heavy </span></font></b></p>

loading (say, 50% of capacity). If the =
&quot;voice
packets&quot; can't get out

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>in time due to local loading, they don't make =
it in
time to get </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>reassembled at the destination, so they get =
dropped
and you start </span></font></b></p>

sounding like you're talking from the moon. =
Yes, it's
cheaper but I'm

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>in a wait-and-see mode on this =
one.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>By the way, you missed one of the real =
selling points
for DSL: </span></font></b></p>

security. The &quot;star&quot; nature of the =
topology
means that no one is

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>sharing your line (or, more accurately, =
circuit),
unlike cable where </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>all the neighborhood packets fly by your =
modem,
allowing &quot;packet </span></font></b></p>

sniffer&quot; software to read them. Rarely a =
problem,
but it's one of the

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>reasons you should never put credit card info =
in
emails or unsecured </span></font></b></p>

HTTP (browser) connections. Of course, this =
advantage
could well

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>disappear in the newer fiber builds depending =
upon how
they are </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>implemented, particularly in the &quot;last =
mile&quot;
(does everyone get their </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>own personal strand or tap into a common =
one?).</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;One of the reasons I chose DSL was the =
ability to
dial in with our </span></font></b></p>

&gt;laptop from almost anywhere in the US =
when we are
traveling. I don't

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;know if that has changed, but at the time =
I signed
up for DSL, that </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&gt;was not an option for Comcast =
subscribers.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I haven't checked this but, as I recall, I =
can access
my mail now </span></font></b></p>

from any browser anywhere. In my case it's =
moot
because, instead, I

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>use a VPN (virtual private network) to =
&quot;take
over&quot; my entire system </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>from any remote browser when I'm =
away.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Bottom line is this:</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>* Yours in not, IMHO, the typical suburban =
experience</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>* Irrespective of price, DSL trumps voice =
modems</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>* Cable trumps DSL</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>* T-1 and T-3, partial or otherwise, trumps =
cable (but
is priced prohibitively)</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I've copied the Idyll CultureChat group so =
you could
reply there </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>because, should anyone wish to continue this =
thread, I
suggest it be </span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>done there so we don't further bore or =
confuse the
heck out of everyone else.</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Jerry</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Century =
Schoolbook"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></b></p>

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