From ggm2020@att.net Mon May 8 09:51:24 2006 From: ggm2020@att.net (Glenn Marshall) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 04:51:24 -0400 Subject: [Culturechat] The Swiss and Immigration Message-ID: <03f701c6727d$f8e259e0$2ea94d0c@3211> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03EE_01C6725B.0EB57040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our local paper reported on a House Judiciary Committee study that was = issued Friday May 5. Their analysis of six countries found that Switzerland, Egypt, Japan, = Sweden, and Mexico all treated illegal entry and unlawful presence as a = criminal offense. The first five of those will jail employers for three = months to three years for hiring illegals. Of the six only Brazil allows = illegals to work without criminal penalties.=20 Here in the U. S. it is not a criminal offense for an illegal immigrant = to be here, but it is a civil one. Looks like we will be hearing a lot more on this subject before the next = U. S. Presidential election. Glenn Marshall ------=_NextPart_000_03EE_01C6725B.0EB57040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Contrary to some of the dialog going on; I have enjoyed improving my = understanding of the differences and issues between cable & DSL. I felt = comfortable with learning about it here because these are 2 available options that = we have to use to be on the list. Thanks for the = discussion.
Alan Strong
-----Original Message-----
From: idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com
[mailto:idyllchat-admin@lists.untours.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Clancy
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:00 PM
To: Russ Crum; culturechat@lists.untours.com
Cc: Brian Cooley; Idyll Chat
Subject: Re: [Idyllchat] DSL
Russ,
See the interspersed notes = below.
At 10:24 PM 5/9/2006, Russ Crum = wrote:
>You may have the credentials to tout much = of what you claim (e.g.
>chaired the IEEE 802 standards = committee).
Well, it's actually a bit more than that. = Subsequent to that I was a
member of two different municipal cable TV = committees for several
years in Minnesota and chairman of another = one here in Jersey. In
between those appointments I was a vp of = engineering for a division
of what is now Time-Warner that was = responsible for developing the
delivery of home electronic services and = full-motion video on demand
to the cable systems.
>However, I think many of your statements = do not hold up to scrutiny.
>I have DSL even though I could have = Comcast, which has it's own host
>of problems since it is the 500 pound = gorilla in the area. I
>regularly check my speed using the same = web sites that the everyone
>else can use. e.g. Megapath, Speakeasy. = My download speed normally
>comes in at 1.8-2.3 Mbps and upload = speeds at 420-440 kbps. Those
>are a far cry from the 100 Kbps that you = claim DSL actually
>provides!! Incidentally, I do not have "pro" level of DSL service
>available and also pay only about 1/2 as = much as Comcast subscribers
>do. Admittedly, the cable service is = faster, but I really don't feel
>deprived at the speeds I have. = Incidentally, we have two and
>sometimes three computers running on the = internet simultaneously at
>my home with these speeds. FYI, I am = about 13,000 feet from the C.O.
I never said DSL can't perform but, to do so, = some of the typical
variables have to change to get decent = performance at longer
distances, for example: high-speed trunking = between the C.O. and the
neighborhood distribution hubs; the addition = of repeaters and
amplifiers (which introduce noise and = therefore packet error rates);
new builds (ie, in relatively new = developments) or rebuilds (new
wire) or conditioned lines; newer modems with = more sophisticated and
higher performing modulation techniques. In = some urban, high-rise and
dense suburban situations, where the high = number of potential drops
can justify the cost of new wire and = equipment, the phone company may
do this and the result is nice, clean, = heavier-duty copper. Do some
or all of these things and you can achieve = higher transmission rates.
However, this is far from typical, = particularly for older (20+ years)
suburban neighborhoods where the phone = companies have been loathe to
rebuild, particularly "the last = mile".
The problem is, given the limitations of = twisted pairs, it never
made economic sense for the companies to do = this ( the same reason
you rarely ever see "overbuilds" = with a second cable company coming
into the same area). So they were stuck = trying to compete with cable
using, in some cases, a 50-year-old = infrastructure. The result was
DSL performance in those neighborhoods that = was so-so to poor to
non-existent. In our case, about 10,000 feet = or so from the C.O., the
copper was so bad it all had to be replaced = several years ago, and
this was a 23-year-old neighborhood with = underground utilities (cable
and phone), and it still can't support DSL. = And our Trenton office
which did use DSL for several years found it troublesome to install
and maintain, with so-so service and = expensive (business rates). Of
course, with cable now threatening their core business, Verizon is
now hell bent for leather building new fiber = networks to the
consumer. If DSL were enough, they wouldn't = be doing this.
>In your rant you also failed to mention = the technical issue of cable
>subscribers sharing a fixed bandwidth in = their areas. I have had
>several Comcast subscribers mention to me = the noticeable slowdown in
>their internet service in the evenings = when other subscribers on
>their local net come on line. That is an = issue that DSL people do
>not have to deal = with.
A fair point that can be a problem in a badly-engineered system with
too many drops per trunk/link. In fact, it = happened here some 5-6
years ago and Comcast split the trunk so that = each one now has only
half the drops it did before and this has not = been an issue since. In
a properly designed plant this shouldn't be a significant issue.
There is a trend, however, to much more bandwidth-intensive
applications like video = clips.
It also raises some questions regarding the = efficacy of phone service
over cable. Essentially, you are placing an = inherently synchronous
service inside a distinctly asynchronous one, = and one (CSMA/CD, or
"Ethernet") which tends to have = disastrous response times under heavy
loading (say, 50% of capacity). If the = "voice packets" can't get out
in time due to local loading, they don't make = it in time to get
reassembled at the destination, so they get = dropped and you start
sounding like you're talking from the moon. = Yes, it's cheaper but I'm
in a wait-and-see mode on this = one.
By the way, you missed one of the real = selling points for DSL:
security. The "star" nature of the = topology means that no one is
sharing your line (or, more accurately, = circuit), unlike cable where
all the neighborhood packets fly by your = modem, allowing "packet
sniffer" software to read them. Rarely a = problem, but it's one of the
reasons you should never put credit card info = in emails or unsecured
HTTP (browser) connections. Of course, this = advantage could well
disappear in the newer fiber builds depending = upon how they are
implemented, particularly in the "last = mile" (does everyone get their
own personal strand or tap into a common = one?).
>One of the reasons I chose DSL was the = ability to dial in with our
>laptop from almost anywhere in the US = when we are traveling. I don't
>know if that has changed, but at the time = I signed up for DSL, that
>was not an option for Comcast = subscribers.
I haven't checked this but, as I recall, I = can access my mail now
from any browser anywhere. In my case it's = moot because, instead, I
use a VPN (virtual private network) to = "take over" my entire system
from any remote browser when I'm = away.
Bottom line is this:
* Yours in not, IMHO, the typical suburban = experience
* Irrespective of price, DSL trumps voice = modems
* Cable trumps DSL
* T-1 and T-3, partial or otherwise, trumps = cable (but is priced prohibitively)
I've copied the Idyll CultureChat group so = you could reply there
because, should anyone wish to continue this = thread, I suggest it be
done there so we don't further bore or = confuse the heck out of everyone else.
Jerry
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C67738.A6925680------- Original Message -----From:=20 Barbara = RoySent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 = 12:55 AMSubject: [Idyllchat] Kreuz = Hotel in=20 Sachseln reopensAfter being closed for nine years, the high = quality=20 renovated Kreuz Hotel opened today in Sachseln. All of the town's = people were=20 invited for drinks, appetizers and a tour of the property. It is truly = a jewel=20 and we can't wait to go back for what is sure to be a great=20 meal.Barbara RoySachseln SwitzerlandMay=20 13, 2006