[Culturechat] What does Jim Kunstler know--that most
Americans don't know?
Bob Bestor
bob@gemut.com
Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:37:14 -0800
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Yeah, most of us Oregonians are pretty aware that=20
we're not in the oil business out here. And you=20
are correct, this state would never buy oil=20
drilling or nuclear power. Wind and sun is more=20
our style. Heck, the Sierra Club won't even let=20
us log trees destroyed by forest fire.
I'm not sure if you missed my point or simply=20
wanted to change the subject. With the rail=20
reference I meant to make the point that in many=20
ways we can't be like Europe - major differences=20
in geography, population density, population=20
composition, culture, etc., preclude it. We (this=20
list) all agree on the problem, but I'm saying=20
we're going to have to solve it our way, not=20
theirs. Mr. Kunstler might, however, be=20
interested in the excellent, mostly free,=20
European-style system of public transportation=20
system in Portland, Oregon (a town, incidentally,=20
which gave John Kerry 82% of its votes), and the=20
way its city center has undergone a re-birth=20
through intelligent planning. Oops, I forgot, Mr.=20
Kunstler gets attention by focusing on failure,=20
not success. And anyway, the last time I was in=20
Portland I did notice a few "obese=20
driver-shoppers" getting out of their SUV's in=20
front of Nordstom, so forget Portland.
Seriously, many people are aware of the issues on=20
which Kunstler wants to ride to fame. Yes, we're=20
too fat. Yes, we drive too many inefficient=20
vehicles. Yes, suburban growth has created=20
problems. And, yes, we don't listen to enough=20
classical music or wear neckties often enough.=20
But this isn't breaking news. Kunstler is using=20
these issues in hopes of becoming a regular on=20
shows like Hardball and Larry King. When I see=20
him being interrogated by Jim Lehrer or Ted=20
Koppel or Brian Lamb, I'll start to take him=20
seriously. I'm not convinced that Europe is the=20
paragon he thinks it is and his style (the title=20
of his blog, for one thing) tells me he's a bit=20
of a wacko.
BTW, I just came back from Germany, Austria &=20
Switzerland. Every public room seemed to be=20
heated to 80 degrees and several friends=20
complained about the high cost of rail travel and=20
how they prefer to travel by car...so not=20
everybody belongs to the Green Party.
Where do you get gas for $1.66?
Happy Holidays,
Bob
>In a message dated 12/23/2004 7:59:18 PM Central=20
>Standard Time, bob@gemut.com writes:
>
>>I truly wish my state, Oregon,
>>
>
>
>Hi Bob.
>
>You might truly wish that your state had some=20
>crude oil reserves. The geology is not favorable=20
>onshore, and I suspect its citizens wouldn't=20
>like the idea of offshore drilling even if your=20
>coastal waters were prospective. (Shell did=20
>drill some wildcat wells off Oregon in the=20
>1960s.)
>
>Only 382 wells of any sort have been drilled in=20
>Oregon, and 332 were dry holes. The remainder=20
>produced a small amount of natural gas -- but it=20
>peaked in 1980 according to the IPAA=20
>(Independent Petroleum Association of America --=20
>an industry group that our fellow Culturechatter=20
>WesTexas probably is a member of), so don't=20
>doubt the message of "Peak Oil"! About the only=20
>crude oil in Oregon is what was in the oily rags=20
>from the Exxon-Valdez beach cleanup that were=20
>transported to Oregon for burial in a landfill=20
>-- and asinine idea, imho.
>
>I further suspect its citizens aren't in favor=20
>of nuclear power -- at least not in their=20
>backyard. Oregonians are lucky from a=20
>geographic sense in that almost 75% of their=20
>electricity comes from hydroelectric power. You=20
>do have a trivial amount of coal (0.035% of the=20
>USA's 500,000 million tons of proven reserves),=20
>but if it weren't for your water power Oregonans=20
>would be dependent upon the rest of the states=20
>or the rest of the world for their energy supply=20
>(e.g., to turn your abundant sea water into the=20
>hydrogen that might be the "different power=20
>source" for your automobiles).
>
>The point that Kunstler makes not very=20
>diplomatically -- and that WesTexas is trying to=20
>awaken this net about -- is that the era of low=20
>cost energy is about gone. Higher energy costs=20
>will adversely impact every sector of our lives,=20
>including travel and eating. We need to emulate=20
>Europe in low per-capita energy consumption to=20
>the extent our politicians will let us.
>
>I suspect Jim Kunstler's hearse indeed will be=20
>powered by gasoline as you predict, but not=20
>$1.66/gal gasoline.
>
>Happy Holidays.
>
>Irv Smith (a retired petroleum engineer)
>Missouri City, TX
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blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [Culturechat] What does Jim Kunstler know--that
most A</title></head><body>
<div>Yeah, most of us Oregonians are pretty aware that we're not in
the oil business out here. And you are correct, this state would never
buy oil drilling or nuclear power. Wind and sun is more our style.
Heck, the Sierra Club won't even let us log trees destroyed by forest
fire.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I'm not sure if you missed my point or simply wanted to change
the subject. With the rail reference I meant to make the point that in
many ways we<i> can't</i> be like Europe - major differences in
geography, population density, population composition, culture, etc.,
preclude it. We (this list) all agree on the problem, but I'm saying
we're going to have to solve it our way, not theirs. Mr. Kunstler
might, however, be interested in the excellent, mostly free,
European-style system of public transportation system in Portland,
Oregon (a town, incidentally, which gave John Kerry 82% of its votes),
and the way its city center has undergone a re-birth through
intelligent planning. Oops, I forgot, Mr. Kunstler gets attention by
focusing on failure, not success. And anyway, the last time I was in
Portland I did notice a few "obese driver-shoppers" getting out of
their SUV's in front of Nordstom, so forget Portland.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Seriously, many people are aware of the issues on which Kunstler
wants to ride to fame. Yes, we're too fat. Yes, we drive too many
inefficient vehicles. Yes, suburban growth has created problems. And,
yes, we don't listen to enough classical music or wear neckties often
enough. But this isn't breaking news. Kunstler is using these issues
in hopes of becoming a regular on shows like<i> Hardball</i> and<i>
Larry King</i>. When I see him being interrogated by Jim Lehrer or Ted
Koppel or Brian Lamb, I'll start to take him seriously. I'm not
convinced that Europe is the paragon he thinks it is and his style
(the title of his blog, for one thing) tells me he's a bit of a
wacko.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>BTW, I just came back from Germany, Austria & Switzerland.
Every public room seemed to be heated to 80 degrees and several
friends complained about the high cost of rail travel and how they
prefer to travel by car...so not everybody belongs to the Green
Party.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Where do you get gas for $1.66?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Happy Holidays,</div>
<div>Bob </div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS">In a message
dated 12/23/2004 7:59:18 PM Central Standard Time, bob@gemut.com
writes:</font><br>
<font face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></font>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"-1"
color=3D"#000000">I truly wish my state, Oregon,</font><br>
<font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"-1" color=3D"#000000"></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><br>
<font color=3D"#000000"><br>
</font></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS"
color=3D"#000000">Hi Bob.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS"
color=3D"#000000"><br>
You might truly wish that your state had some crude oil reserves. The
geology is not favorable onshore, and I suspect its citizens wouldn't
like the idea of offshore drilling even if your coastal waters were
prospective. (Shell did drill some wildcat wells off Oregon in
the 1960s.)<br>
<br>
Only 382 wells of any sort have been drilled in Oregon, and 332 were
dry holes. The remainder produced a small amount of natural gas
-- but it peaked in 1980 according to the IPAA (Independent Petroleum
Association of America -- an industry group that our fellow
Culturechatter WesTexas probably is a member of), so don't doubt the
message of "Peak Oil"! About the only crude oil in
Oregon is what was in the oily rags from the Exxon-Valdez beach
cleanup that were transported to Oregon for burial in a landfill --
and asinine idea, imho.<br>
<br>
I further suspect its citizens aren't in favor of nuclear power -- at
least not in their backyard. Oregonians are lucky from a
geographic sense in that almost 75% of their electricity comes from
hydroelectric power. You do have a trivial amount of coal
(0.035% of the USA's 500,000 million tons of proven reserves), but if
it weren't for your water power Oregonans would be dependent upon the
rest of the states or the rest of the world for their energy supply
(e.g., to turn your abundant sea water into the hydrogen that might be
the "different power source" for your automobiles).<br>
<br>
The point that Kunstler makes not very diplomatically -- and that
WesTexas is trying to awaken this net about -- is that the era of low
cost energy is about gone. Higher energy costs will adversely
impact every sector of our lives, including travel and eating.
We need to emulate Europe in low per-capita energy consumption to the
extent our politicians will let us.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><font face=3D"Comic Sans MS"
color=3D"#000000"><br>
I suspect Jim Kunstler's hearse indeed will be powered by gasoline as
you predict, but not $1.66/gal gasoline. <br>
<br>
Happy Holidays.<br>
<br>
Irv Smith (a retired petroleum engineer)<br>
Missouri City, TX</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
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