From gigli.saw@dplanet.ch Sun Mar 3 18:30:00 2002 From: gigli.saw@dplanet.ch (Vance Roy) Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:30:00 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] http://www2.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=100 Message-ID: <3C826BA8.4050106@dplanet.ch> Try this for a look at CH in the United Nations. http://www2.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=100 Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch. From gigli.saw@dplanet.ch Mon Mar 4 13:08:15 2002 From: gigli.saw@dplanet.ch (Vance Roy) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:08:15 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] CH in the UN References: <3C826BA8.4050106@dplanet.ch> <000701c1c2ea$30a8f700$4056b2d8@computer> Message-ID: <3C8371BF.6080805@dplanet.ch> > Vance, doesn't this, for the first time, make them vulnerable to military > service throughout the world? I'm not sure how this works. What really > motivated them to join? There is no provision in the UN Charter to compel any member to enter hostilities. The Swiss already have some troops as peacekeepers in the Balkans. Since WW II, the Swiss have entered into many engagements that would have been non-neutral in some eyes. Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch. From gigli.saw@dplanet.ch Mon Mar 4 13:17:31 2002 From: gigli.saw@dplanet.ch (Vance Roy) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:17:31 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] CH and the EU References: <3C826BA8.4050106@dplanet.ch> <001d01c1c313$4cfe1740$8657d2d0@bertmills> Message-ID: <3C8373EB.5020905@dplanet.ch> Bert and Idabelle Mills wrote: > Well, okay. Is the Euro next? > > What does it mean that Switzerland is joining the UN, Vance? > > Bert Mills I have asked several folks that in the last few hours. We all agree that for the average citizen, the membership means little or nothing on a day to day basis. For the members of the government, it will make their lives a bit easier in all spheres of international relations, since it puts them on a level field. Interesting thought: The cost of CH membership per year in the UN will be equal to building one kilometer of an interstate (autobahn). Time will tell about the EU. I have not begun to think about selling my CHF. Herr Blocher is already gearing up for the fight about EU membership for CH. Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch. From borissojka@adelphia.net Mon Mar 4 21:00:42 2002 From: borissojka@adelphia.net (Boris Sojka) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:42 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] CHANGE Message-ID: <001201c1c3bf$a58967a0$0c473218@stmnca.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1C37C.974495E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Before going to Russia last year I was an email reciepient of = (infochat???). The dialogue was more diverse and varied than culturechat.=20 I also changed email address' from aol to adelphia. So all I'm getting is info about Switzerland. I really don't have that much interest is Switzerland. Am I missing another chat room? Boris Sojka ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1C37C.974495E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Before going to Russia last year I was = an email=20 reciepient of (infochat???).

The dialogue was more diverse and = varied than=20 culturechat.

I also changed email address' from aol = to=20 adelphia.

So all I'm getting is info about=20 Switzerland.

I really don't have that much interest = is=20 Switzerland.

Am I missing another chat = room?

Boris Sojka

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1C37C.974495E0-- From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Sun Mar 10 19:48:07 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:48:07 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country Message-ID: OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you know how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was a prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. There have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a 3/4/5 language country anyway. Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what I call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and play (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of cars with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't want to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch From jane@mc.net Sun Mar 10 20:53:11 2002 From: jane@mc.net (philip king) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:53:11 -0600 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: Message-ID: <000b01c1c875$98b03c60$c25e70d1@hppav> > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about > it but me. No way! We become blind to what we see every day (like the scratches on the furniture), and it is instructive to see it through fresher eyes. > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY > country again after many months. I think you're right. I also think that it has worn a little thinner in the months since the immediate aftermath of 9/11, and am afraid that in another six months we may be back to "normal" in that regard. > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. The plastic bags are also recyclable, though I don't know how efficiently. They can be dropped into a bin at many of the big chain stores; ours are picked up by the local recycling company. > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. Please write more!! Jane From JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 10 23:58:13 2002 From: JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net (Joan Herriges) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:58:13 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: Message-ID: <001001c1c88f$749847e0$9e40510c@joan> I think you are right Vance. Generally, we see a kinder U.S. We have been doing some domestic travel and find people leaning over backward to please and be friendlier. But a disclaimer! Would have to drive a bit in Boston (we're from Calif.) to see how those good folks have improved. No offense intended. Cheers. Joan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Roy" To: "culturechat" Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about > it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you know > how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. > > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY > country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was a > prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. > > Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. There > have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, > but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a 3/4/5 > language country anyway. > > Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so > Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic > courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what I > call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and play > (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't > have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. > > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. > > I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of cars > with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods > in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't want > to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery > in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. > > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > From Laeink@aol.com Mon Mar 11 00:17:20 2002 From: Laeink@aol.com (Laeink@aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:20 EST Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country Message-ID: <57.7dd9b2c.29bd5190@aol.com> Now guys is it really necessary to keep complaining about Bostonians. Just cuz you can not figure out how to drive our streets does not mean we do not like visitors. See I truly believe regardless of where you are, people react to you as you react to them. If you are horrified by the traffic, noise, etc. that comes through loud and clearand is coneyed more ways than be words. If you are hostile, negative, whatever that also comes through loud and clear. Bostonians are just an independant bunch of people who are caught up in the hustle and bustle of working, a lousey commute (big dig generated), and generally just very busy. We are cross cultural community with many types of backgrounds, economic means, and ways of dealing with working and livinig in a city. stop anyone of us on the street and 9 out of 10 times the person will take a moment and help you out. Pretty much the same percentage you find other places as well. Remember because it is not familiar it does not mean that it is bad or horrible or that the people fit that category either. Open minds, bring open hearts. Give it a shot afterall that is one of the main reasons we all travel with idyll. Leslie From haggart@uidaho.edu Mon Mar 11 01:12:09 2002 From: haggart@uidaho.edu (Peter Haggart) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:12:09 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: Message-ID: <000f01c1c899$c5594d00$8bf2f5c7@uidaho.edu> Vance -------- I don't read your message as "unpatriotic" at all. I read your message as a commentary from a person returning to his "native" country - as you do now and again - and giving us a perspective that we would not normally have of what is happening in the USA - at least in that area of the country that you visit. Just as we give you a perspective of Switzerland - a country that you live in 95% of the time - that you would not get in any other way. So - I for one anyway - appreciate your comments - and I always find them interesting. Maggie and I are looking forward to meeting you and your wife this summer. At the end I can only say that I have never ever found a bakery in the USA to match any European village bakery - there is something "magic" about the bread crust or the ingredients of anything sweet. Looking forward to that too!! Pete Pete and Maggie Haggart 1530 Borah Avenue Moscow, ID 83843 Email: haggart@moscow.com WebPage: http://users.moscow.com/haggart/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Roy" To: "culturechat" Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about > it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you know > how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. > > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY > country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was a > prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. > > Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. There > have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, > but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a 3/4/5 > language country anyway. > > Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so > Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic > courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what I > call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and play > (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't > have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. > > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. > > I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of cars > with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods > in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't want > to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery > in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. > > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > From haggart@uidaho.edu Mon Mar 11 01:17:26 2002 From: haggart@uidaho.edu (Peter Haggart) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:17:26 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: <57.7dd9b2c.29bd5190@aol.com> Message-ID: <002401c1c89a$82270a80$8bf2f5c7@uidaho.edu> Right on Leslie! I like Boston and people from Boston - I don't like big cities and noise and all that stuff, so I live in the panhandle of Idaho and I still like Vance - pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > Now guys is it really necessary to keep complaining about Bostonians. Just > cuz you can not figure out how to drive our streets does not mean we do not > like visitors. See I truly believe regardless of where you are, people react > to you as you react to them. If you are horrified by the traffic, noise, > etc. that comes through loud and clearand is coneyed more ways than be words. > If you are hostile, negative, whatever that also comes through loud and > clear. > Bostonians are just an independant bunch of people who are caught up in the > hustle and bustle of working, a lousey commute (big dig generated), and > generally just very busy. We are cross cultural community with many types of > backgrounds, economic means, and ways of dealing with working and livinig in > a city. > stop anyone of us on the street and 9 out of 10 times the person will take a > moment and help you out. Pretty much the same percentage you find other > places as well. > Remember because it is not familiar it does not mean that it is bad or > horrible or that the people fit that category either. Open minds, bring open > hearts. Give it a shot > afterall that is one of the main reasons we all travel with idyll. > Leslie > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > From mortonmiii@earthlink.net Mon Mar 11 01:27:12 2002 From: mortonmiii@earthlink.net (Morton Mumma iii) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:27:12 -0500 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country Message-ID: <412002311112712890@earthlink.net> Re: Bakeries---there is a Swedish bakery, name forgotten nor, in Ballard, northern suburb of Seattle, that is as good a bakery as I ever found in Denmark or Germany, in over 13 years of living over there. > [Original Message] > From: Peter Haggart > To: culturechat ; Vance Roy > Date: 3/10/02 8:05:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > > Vance -------- > > I don't read your message as "unpatriotic" at all. > > I read your message as a commentary from a person returning to his "native" > country - as you do now and again - and giving us a perspective that we > would not normally have of what is happening in the USA - at least in that > area of the country that you visit. Just as we give you a perspective of > Switzerland - a country that you live in 95% of the time - that you would > not get in any other way. So - I for one anyway - appreciate your comments - > and I always find them interesting. Maggie and I are looking forward to > meeting you and your wife this summer. > > At the end I can only say that I have never ever found a bakery in the USA > to match any European village bakery - there is something "magic" about the > bread crust or the ingredients of anything sweet. Looking forward to that > too!! > > Pete > > Pete and Maggie Haggart > 1530 Borah Avenue > Moscow, ID 83843 > Email: haggart@moscow.com > WebPage: http://users.moscow.com/haggart/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vance Roy" > To: "culturechat" > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:48 AM > Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > > > > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone > about > > it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you > know > > how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. > > > > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer > to > > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered > MY > > country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was > a > > prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. > > > > Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. > There > > have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, > > but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a > 3/4/5 > > language country anyway. > > > > Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so > > Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic > > courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what > I > > call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and > play > > (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't > > have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. > > > > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked > for > > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. > > > > I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of > cars > > with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods > > in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't > want > > to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery > > in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. > > > > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", > I > > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. > > > > Vance Roy > > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This message was sent by Culturechat. > > To reply or send a new message, email to: > > Culturechat@untours.com > > > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat --- Morton Mumma iii --- mortonmiii@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. From JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 11 03:21:21 2002 From: JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net (Joan Herriges) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:21:21 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: <57.7dd9b2c.29bd5190@aol.com> Message-ID: <001b01c1c8ac$446e6460$d74e510c@joan> Hey Leslie: Couldn't you tell? My tongue was in my cheek! Just a little ribbing. We adore Boston! Get there every available opportunity. One of our challenges is to see if we can beat the traffic in a variety of ways. We are also long suffering Red Sox fans! Cheers. Joan. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > Now guys is it really necessary to keep complaining about Bostonians. Just > cuz you can not figure out how to drive our streets does not mean we do not > like visitors. See I truly believe regardless of where you are, people react > to you as you react to them. If you are horrified by the traffic, noise, > etc. that comes through loud and clearand is coneyed more ways than be words. > If you are hostile, negative, whatever that also comes through loud and > clear. > Bostonians are just an independant bunch of people who are caught up in the > hustle and bustle of working, a lousey commute (big dig generated), and > generally just very busy. We are cross cultural community with many types of > backgrounds, economic means, and ways of dealing with working and livinig in > a city. > stop anyone of us on the street and 9 out of 10 times the person will take a > moment and help you out. Pretty much the same percentage you find other > places as well. > Remember because it is not familiar it does not mean that it is bad or > horrible or that the people fit that category either. Open minds, bring open > hearts. Give it a shot > afterall that is one of the main reasons we all travel with idyll. > Leslie > From soul25@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 11 11:07:05 2002 From: soul25@worldnet.att.net (Anita Killen) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:07:05 -0600 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: Message-ID: <3C8C8FB2.3F1815F5@worldnet.att.net> Yes, a lot of people are nicer since 9/11, but there are still a lot of crazies running around out there - especially drivers who can't stand to have a car in front of them and so they weave in and out of traffic and refuse to yield. And the kidnappings and theft and murders and things like that are the same as they always were - I don't think 9/11 has changed that. But I hardly read the paper anymore because my fragile mind just can't deal with the horrid stuff going on all over the world. I'm doing well to do what I can to improve things in my own little world. People you meet in the grocery store and other places do seem to be more polite and considerate. Can't comment on Boston. In my part of the world the plastic bags are just as recyclable as paper bags. All paper, including newspapers and junk mail get picked up at the curb. So do glass and plastic #1 and #2 containers and broken down corrugated boxes. Plastic bags go back to the grocery store and put in a recycle bin. But the fact remains that the USA is probably the leading country in being a throw-away society - each generation seems to want more material goods -more toys when they're little and bigger and better houses and cars when they're older. Like you say, different cultural differences. Anita Vance Roy wrote: > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about > it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you know > how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. > > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY > country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was a > prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. > > Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. There > have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, > but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a 3/4/5 > language country anyway. > > Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so > Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic > courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what I > call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and play > (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't > have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. > > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. > > I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of cars > with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods > in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't want > to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery > in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. > > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Mon Mar 11 14:11:33 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country In-Reply-To: <57.7dd9b2c.29bd5190@aol.com> Message-ID: Vance Roy at gigli.saw@dplanet.ch wrote: I spent my time in BOS in 1969-71. The U. S. Navy "asked" for my assistance, and I spent two years developing my Boston personality and living amongst the natives. It was a rewarding experience and had opportunities been right, I would have stayed in NH or VT close by the city. My first Boston experience was in a cab on the way from logan to the Children's hospital. On Storrow drive, we got into a jam (isn't there always one there?). My driver got and beat the daylights out of another cab driver, got back in the cab, and drove me onward. I wondered if I should have upped the tip because he came out on top in the fight. Now, remember, I was directly out of a residency in Memphis, TN. (you know, that Mississippi River backwater town?). Where I came from Bostonese brusqueness was called bad manners at best. Cabbies didn't try to kill each other. Then there was the time that I asked a drugstore clerk where the toothpaste was. I interrupted an obviously important conversation she was having with another employee leaning on a counter with her. She acted like I had crawled from under a rock, and her language wasn't very nice. I wasn't sure where she was going to put the toothpaste when she gave it to me. Of course, with Tennessee plates on my car (military did not have to have MA registration), I was fair game for the daily game of dodge em cars to and from work. I learned downtown Boston by going in on Sunday AMs and driving around. I realized that a native Bostonian had been correct when he told me that the streets had been laid out by a maddened dogcatcher. This was when The Big Dig was yet a gleam in the politician's eyes. Now, traffic is just a real chinese fire drill. Then there was the time that I went into a sub shop. This was long before subs were known in the South (always capitalized). The guy treated me like I had just arrived from another planet and had left my fly open. The final blow came one morning when a woman (hesitate to use lady here) cut me off at an intersection, flipped the universal sign at me, and then laughed. I resolved that the very next so and so I could find was going to taste the bumper of my car. I spent the rest of my two years there trying to hit someone. I concluded that Bostonese have 360 degree peripheral vision and can escape any assault. I also found out that the same drugstore clerk, mentioned above, responded very well to abuse. If I walked in and said, "I need nothing that would be found in this &^%(* dump" (you are welcome chat Gestapo), she would break her neck trying to make me happy. That was how I started to develop my Boston personality and vastly improved my cussing vocabulary. Those were the days of Vietnam, the Bruins, Bobby Orr, Stanley Cups two years in a row, and the old Boston Gaaaaden. "The family" lived in Revere, MA so every so often a house would mysteriously blown up while the family was away for the weekend. This was the Mafioso way of saying, "straighten up". We were one of two Gentile families in our building, so I gained insight into wonderful Jewish feasts and recipes. My two toddlers developed such great Yankee accents that they had to have elocution sessions when we returned to Alabama. They were the hit of the kindergarten when they showed up to show the little Yanks a stalk of real cotton from West Tennessee. The other little apes thought cotton came ready made as cloth. Cultural interchange was underwy. Now, I am in a real quandary. I tried my Boston tactics on someone at Logan last week, and I thought he was going to cry. Can it be that the old Boston has gone soft?? In my previous life there, hostility meant you cared enough to be one of them. Leslie, I hope you take this in the proper spirit as it is written. I agree with what you say in general. Are you sure we are talking about the same Boston? The one in Massachusetts? Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch From oosterman@cableone.net Mon Mar 11 15:57:43 2002 From: oosterman@cableone.net (oosterman@cableone.net) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:57:43 -0700 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country Message-ID: <3fea01c1c915$7a964850$2c00740a@cableone.net> Vance et al, we lived in a Boston suburb all our lives until we moved to this small town in the mountains of Arizona eight years ago, so your stories and others are a delight to us as we recall a faster paced life. And yes, we did have to change our driving habits, especially making left turns in front of oncoming traffic when the light turns green - that is a definite no-no in most other parts of the country, with the possible exception of NYC. However, my husband did "revert" to his old habits last week and got a ticket for cutting off a State Trooper. Oh well, such is life in the slow lane! Astrid O. -----Original Message----- From: "culturechat-admin@untours.com" on behalf of "Vance Roy" Sent: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +0100 To: "Laeink@aol.com" Cc: "culturechat" Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country Vance Roy at gigli.saw@dplanet.ch wrote: I spent my time in BOS in 1969-71. The U. S. Navy "asked" for my assistance, and I spent two years developing my Boston personality and living amongst the natives. It was a rewarding experience and had opportunities been right, I would have stayed in NH or VT close by the city. My first Boston experience was in a cab on the way from logan to the Children's hospital. On Storrow drive, we got into a jam (isn't there always one there?). My driver got and beat the daylights out of another cab driver, got back in the cab, and drove me onward. I wondered if I should have upped the tip because he came out on top in the fight. Now, remember, I was directly out of a residency in Memphis, TN. (you know, that Mississippi River backwater town?). Where I came from Bostonese brusqueness was called bad manners at best. Cabbies didn't try to kill each other. Then there was the time that I asked a drugstore clerk where the toothpaste was. I interrupted an obviously important conversation she was having with another employee leaning on a counter with her. She acted like I had crawled from under a rock, and her language wasn't very nice. I wasn't sure where she was going to put the toothpaste when she gave it to me. Of course, with Tennessee plates on my car (military did not have to have MA registration), I was fair game for the daily game of dodge em cars to and from work. I learned downtown Boston by going in on Sunday AMs and driving around. I realized that a native Bostonian had been correct when he told me that the streets had been laid out by a maddened dogcatcher. This was when The Big Dig was yet a gleam in the politician's eyes. Now, traffic is just a real chinese fire drill. Then there was the time that I went into a sub shop. This was long before subs were known in the South (always capitalized). The guy treated me like I had just arrived from another planet and had left my fly open. The final blow came one morning when a woman (hesitate to use lady here) cut me off at an intersection, flipped the universal sign at me, and then laughed. I resolved that the very next so and so I could find was going to taste the bumper of my car. I spent the rest of my two years there trying to hit someone. I concluded that Bostonese have 360 degree peripheral vision and can escape any assault. I also found out that the same drugstore clerk, mentioned above, responded very well to abuse. If I walked in and said, "I need nothing that would be found in this &^%(* dump" (you are welcome chat Gestapo), she would break her neck trying to make me happy. That was how I started to develop my Boston personality and vastly improved my cussing vocabulary. Those were the days of Vietnam, the Bruins, Bobby Orr, Stanley Cups two years in a row, and the old Boston Gaaaaden. "The family" lived in Revere, MA so every so often a house would mysteriously blown up while the family was away for the weekend. This was the Mafioso way of saying, "straighten up". We were one of two Gentile families in our building, so I gained insight into wonderful Jewish feasts and recipes. My two toddlers developed such great Yankee accents that they had to have elocution sessions when we returned to Alabama. They were the hit of the kindergarten when they showed up to show the little Yanks a stalk of real cotton from West Tennessee. The other little apes thought cotton came ready made as cloth. Cultural interchange was underwy. Now, I am in a real quandary. I tried my Boston tactics on someone at Logan last week, and I thought he was going to cry. Can it be that the old Boston has gone soft?? In my previous life there, hostility meant you cared enough to be one of them. Leslie, I hope you take this in the proper spirit as it is written. I agree with what you say in general. Are you sure we are talking about the same Boston? The one in Massachusetts? Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch _______________________________________________ This message was sent by Culturechat. To reply or send a new message, email to: Culturechat@untours.com Visit the CultureChat archives: http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or temporarily pause delivery, visit: http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat From WesTexas@aol.com Mon Mar 11 21:00:30 2002 From: WesTexas@aol.com (WesTexas@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:00:30 EST Subject: [Culturechat] A Comment on Muslim Rage Message-ID: The Core of Muslim Rage Commentary by Thomas L. Friedman The latest death toll in the Indian violence between Hindus and Muslims is 544 people, many of them Muslims. Why is it that when Hindus kill hundreds of Muslims it elicits an emotionally muted headline in the Arab media, but when Israel kills a dozen Muslims, in a war in which Muslims are also killing Jews, it inflames the entire Muslim world? I raise this point not to make some idiot press critique or engage in cheap Arab-bashing. This is a serious issue. In recent weeks, whenever Arab Muslims told me of their pain at seeing Palestinians brutalized by Israelis on their TV screens every night, I asked back: Why are you so pained about Israelis brutalizing Palestinians, but don't say a word about the brutality with which Saddam Hussein has snuffed out two generations of Iraqis using murder, fear and poison gas? I got no good answers. Because the real answer is rooted in something very deep. It has to do with the contrast between Islam's self-perception as the most ideal and complete expression of the three great monotheistic religions — Judaism, Christianity and Islam — and the conditions of poverty, repression and underdevelopment in which most Muslims live today. As a U.S. diplomat in the Middle East said to me, Israel — not Iraq, not India — is "a constant reminder to Muslims of their own powerlessness." How could a tiny Jewish state amass so much military and economic power if the Islamic way of life — not Christianity or Judaism — is God's most ideal religious path? When Hindus kill Muslims it's not a story, because there are a billion Hindus and they aren't part of the Muslim narrative. When Saddam murders his own people it's not a story, because it's in the Arab-Muslim family. But when a small band of Israeli Jews kills Muslims it sparks rage — a rage that must come from Muslims having to confront the gap between their self-perception as Muslims and the reality of the Muslim world. I have long believed that it is this poverty of dignity, not a poverty of money, that is behind a lot of Muslim rage today and the reason this rage is sharpest among educated, but frustrated, Muslim youth. It is they who perpetrated 9/11 and who slit the throat of the Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl — after reportedly forcing him to declare on film, "I am a Jew and my mother is a Jew." This is not to say that U.S. policy is blameless. We do bad things sometimes. But why is it that only Muslims react to our bad policies with suicidal terrorism, not Mexicans or Chinese? Is it because Arab-Muslim conspiracy theories state that Jews could not be so strong on their own — therefore the only reason Israel could be strong, and Muslims weak, is because the U.S. created and supports Israel? The Muslim world needs to take an honest look at this rage. Look what it has done to Palestinian society — where the flower of Palestinian youth now celebrate suicide against Jews as a source of dignity. That is so bad. Yes, there is an Israeli occupation, and that occupation has been hugely distorting of Palestinian life. But the fact is this: If Palestinians had said, "We are going to oppose the Israeli occupation, with nonviolent resistance, as if we had no other options, and we are going to build a Palestinian society, schools and economy, as if we had no occupation" — they would have had a quality state a long time ago. Instead they have let the occupation define their whole movement and become Yasir Arafat's excuse for not building jobs and democracy. Only Muslims can heal their own rage. But the West, and particularly the Jewish world, should help. Because this rage poses an existential threat to Israel. Three broad trends are now converging: (1) The worst killing ever between Israelis and Palestinians; (2) a baby boom in the Arab-Muslim world, where about half the population is under 20; (3) an explosion of Arab satellite TV and Internet, which are taking the horrific images from the intifada and beaming them directly to the new Arab- Muslim generation. If 100 million Arab-Muslims are brought up with these images, Israel won't survive. Some of this hatred will remain no matter what Israel does. But to think that Israel's exiting the occupied territories — and abandoning its insane settlement land grab there — wouldn't reduce this problem is absurd. Israel cannot do it alone. But it has to do all it can to get this show off the air. It would take away an important card from the worst Muslim anti- Semites and it would help strengthen those Muslims, and there are many of them, who know that the suicidal rage of their fanatics is dragging down their whole civilization. From borissojka@adelphia.net Tue Mar 12 00:52:04 2002 From: borissojka@adelphia.net (Boris Sojka) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:52:04 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country References: <57.7dd9b2c.29bd5190@aol.com> Message-ID: <008601c1c960$20f735c0$0c473218@stmnca.adelphia.net> I seem to remember a book written in the 70's or 80's called "Wild in the Streets". It had to do with Boston drivers and it's main theme was, "If you don't like my driving, stay off the sidewalks." On the positive side, driving in Boston was excellent practice for driving in Istanbul. Boris Sojka ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > Now guys is it really necessary to keep complaining about Bostonians. Just > cuz you can not figure out how to drive our streets does not mean we do not > like visitors. See I truly believe regardless of where you are, people react > to you as you react to them. If you are horrified by the traffic, noise, > etc. that comes through loud and clearand is coneyed more ways than be words. > If you are hostile, negative, whatever that also comes through loud and > clear. > Bostonians are just an independant bunch of people who are caught up in the > hustle and bustle of working, a lousey commute (big dig generated), and > generally just very busy. We are cross cultural community with many types of > backgrounds, economic means, and ways of dealing with working and livinig in > a city. > stop anyone of us on the street and 9 out of 10 times the person will take a > moment and help you out. Pretty much the same percentage you find other > places as well. > Remember because it is not familiar it does not mean that it is bad or > horrible or that the people fit that category either. Open minds, bring open > hearts. Give it a shot > afterall that is one of the main reasons we all travel with idyll. > Leslie > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat From Kraut907@aol.com Tue Mar 12 02:12:17 2002 From: Kraut907@aol.com (Kraut907@aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:12:17 EST Subject: [Culturechat] (no subject) Message-ID: <181.4e254fc.29bebe01@aol.com> Hi, Vance, I can't comment on Boston, having been there only once. But I had a friend from there who drove like a maniac and almost got us killed when we , in DC, went to a Washington Capitals/ Boston Bruins hockey game, and he stood up and cheered for the Bruins. But apropos feeling like a foreigner - that I can relate to! I have been a US citizen since 1964 and have lived here since '59, but I guess my soul will always remain German. When I visit Germany every year or so, I feel somewhat disoriented. I have come to believe that being an immigrant is not the easiest thing in the world. One is somehow in an in-between state of mind or, as they say in the old country, one "sits between two chairs". Sigrid. From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Wed Mar 13 18:36:14 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:36:14 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes Message-ID: Many visitors to CH in the summer notice the gardens of vegetables and flowers. Some comment on the little statues often seen in these gardens. These little funny looking things are called "Zwerge". Exactly what their function is is a puzzle to me. Anyway, I have a couple of my own. They range in size from 6 inches or so to a couple of feet and are dressed in colored garb like one would expect on a minature clown. There are an estimated 15,000,000 of these little guys across Europe, mostly in Germany and CH. It seems that now a german company has decided to produce a female garden gnome. I had never noticed them to be all males, but I guess until now, they were. There is a Basel group called the International Association for the Protection of the Garden Gnome, and these folks are fit to be tied about this gender change in garden gnomes. They got so mad that they fined the manufacturer, an outfit called Griebel, the sum of CHF 100. They paid up but defended their choice to make female gnomes. Apparently, these gnomes are decorative only. Even if you talk badly to your gnome, he will just sit quietly and nothing serious will happen. So, the next time your are cruising along the garden paths in Germany or CH, tip your cap or wave at the gnomes and look for girls (gnomies that is). Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch From JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 13 21:03:51 2002 From: JoanHerriges@worldnet.att.net (Joan Herriges) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:03:51 -0800 Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes References: Message-ID: <002401c1cad3$f82a0c60$ee42510c@joan> Aha! These "garten zwergs" have been carry-on's on 5 trips home. There are 15 lurking in our garden. Their function is to remind us of happy times and beautiful gardens in Switzerland, Germany and Austriai. Some have names that remind us of specific buying locations, such as "Thuner", "Landi", "Vevey". We have the "Boss" and "Marin Joe" (near Neuchatel). We have actually taken longer rail journeys to a super Migros near Marin-Neuchatel to get the best selection. They are whimsical, and everyone who visits whips out the camera. The best brand are Zehos, made in Austria. They even ship worldwide. Certainly believe in gender equity---but will have to ponder this situation carefully. By the way, the prestigious U.K. Chelsea Flower Show bans gnomes in their show gardens--can you believe it! Thanks for the smile! Cheers. Joan. I ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance Roy" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes > Many visitors to CH in the summer notice the gardens of vegetables and > flowers. Some comment on the little statues often seen in these gardens. > These little funny looking things are called "Zwerge". Exactly what their > function is is a puzzle to me. Anyway, I have a couple of my own. They range > in size from 6 inches or so to a couple of feet and are dressed in colored > garb like one would expect on a minature clown. There are an estimated > 15,000,000 of these little guys across Europe, mostly in Germany and CH. > > It seems that now a german company has decided to produce a female garden > gnome. I had never noticed them to be all males, but I guess until now, they > were. There is a Basel group called the International Association for the > Protection of the Garden Gnome, and these folks are fit to be tied about > this gender change in garden gnomes. They got so mad that they fined the > manufacturer, an outfit called Griebel, the sum of CHF 100. They paid up but > defended their choice to make female gnomes. Apparently, these gnomes are > decorative only. Even if you talk badly to your gnome, he will just sit > quietly and nothing serious will happen. > > So, the next time your are cruising along the garden paths in Germany or CH, > tip your cap or wave at the gnomes and look for girls (gnomies that is). > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > From quinones2@yahoo.com Wed Mar 13 21:20:59 2002 From: quinones2@yahoo.com (Rosalia and Eupi Qui�ones) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes In-Reply-To: <002401c1cad3$f82a0c60$ee42510c@joan> Message-ID: <20020313212059.20575.qmail@web11605.mail.yahoo.com> --0-2134329537-1016054459=:18052 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In our visit to the Faulkland Island this Christmas we noticed these gnomes in a garden. They had many of them. They must be the same family. We were told that somebody stole one sometime ago and they were talking about it for many months. Interesting. Rose Caribbean Translating Services 3018 Nantucket San Antonio, Texas 78230 TEL: (210) 691-1863 FAX: (210) 696-6720 --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! --0-2134329537-1016054459=:18052 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

In our visit to the Faulkland Island this Christmas we noticed these gnomes in a garden. They had many of them. They must be the same family. We were told that somebody stole one sometime ago and they were talking about it for many months. Interesting.

Rose

Caribbean Translating Services
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! --0-2134329537-1016054459=:18052-- From dasione@yahoo.com Thu Mar 14 12:05:08 2002 From: dasione@yahoo.com (jane haslett) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:05:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020314120508.42911.qmail@web12604.mail.yahoo.com> Home owners in Royal Oak Mi and environs often have faux geese in their front yard. they dress them up in little outfits usually appropriate to the season or holiday. this practice has spread to Ohio and Illinois.It was reported last year in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. May of us in the Midwest have germanic roots. roots wrote: > Many visitors to CH in the summer notice the gardens > of vegetables and > flowers. Some comment on the little statues often > seen in these gardens. > These little funny looking things are called > "Zwerge". Exactly what their > function is is a puzzle to me. Anyway, I have a > couple of my own. They range > in size from 6 inches or so to a couple of feet and > are dressed in colored > garb like one would expect on a minature clown. > There are an estimated > 15,000,000 of these little guys across Europe, > mostly in Germany and CH. > > It seems that now a german company has decided to > produce a female garden > gnome. I had never noticed them to be all males, but > I guess until now, they > were. There is a Basel group called the > International Association for the > Protection of the Garden Gnome, and these folks are > fit to be tied about > this gender change in garden gnomes. They got so mad > that they fined the > manufacturer, an outfit called Griebel, the sum of > CHF 100. They paid up but > defended their choice to make female gnomes. > Apparently, these gnomes are > decorative only. Even if you talk badly to your > gnome, he will just sit > quietly and nothing serious will happen. > > So, the next time your are cruising along the garden > paths in Germany or CH, > tip your cap or wave at the gnomes and look for > girls (gnomies that is). > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Fri Mar 15 19:22:59 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:22:59 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] http://eat.epicurious.com/restaurant/erg/index.ssf?/restaurant/erg/alsace/intro.html Message-ID: <0F5F1680-384A-11D6-A3B6-0003936A3F2E@aiconnect.com> Go to the above for some good info on eating in Alsace. Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch From courtney.ziff@untours.com Fri Mar 22 15:58:19 2002 From: courtney.ziff@untours.com (Courtney Ziff) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:58:19 -0500 Subject: [Culturechat] Swiss Wine and Cuisine Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020322103723.00c68d20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hi Culture Chatters! After seeing the great deals that the new Swiss Air Lines is offering on Frommer's Newsletter (see www.frommers.com for more information). We would like to remind you of the Swiss Wine and Cuisine Untours Extra that we are offering in Switzerland, May 8- May 22nd. Swiss Wine and Cuisine: Switzerland produces wines held in high esteem throughout Europe. However, it's rare to find Swiss wines outside of Switzerland, since they are produced in small quantities. After the Swiss have had their fill, there isn't enough left over to export. The Swiss Wine and Cuisine program is an ideal opportunity to learn about and sample several varieties of Swiss wine. Plus, you'll learn about Switzerland's famous cheese industry, and you'll get a lesson in making the traditional Swiss dish 'Alpen magaronen'. The Swiss Wine and Cuisine program will be held in the Swiss Heartland. It will include *Wine and cheese tasting *Cooking class--learn how to make Alpen magaronen *Visit to a Swiss chocolate factory *Traditional Swiss Untour farewell dinner with yodeling, dancing and alphorns *Other suggested Wine and Cuisine related activities If all of this isn't enough to get your interest, we are now offering a $200 per person sale off of all the Swiss Untour destinations for arrival dates until June 19th (see www.untours.com or phone us 1-888-868-6871 for more information). Untours Extra will only be offered from May 8-22nd. Take advantage of all the great deals and experience Switzerland in the Spring! Courtney Ziff The Swiss and Dutch Untours Extension 27 ================================================= Untours - Independent Travel With Support! Tel.: 888-UNTOUR-1 Web: Join IdyllChat, an email discussion group on European travel! Visit: "Most Generous Company in America, 1999" awarded by Newman's Own & George magazine. For information on the Idyll Development Foundation, visit: From rwm1029@chartertn.net Sun Mar 24 01:03:38 2002 From: rwm1029@chartertn.net (Bob Miller) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:03:38 -0500 Subject: [Culturechat] Re: Culturechat digest, Vol 1 #24 - 8 msgs References: <200203132114.g2DLE1V14254@viper.oldcity.dca.net> Message-ID: <004701c1d2cf$c2474b40$116e9e18@chartertn.net> Hi, Vance, I see that your ramblings continue even back in the old US of A. Keep it up. Sometime when you have a few minutes, I have another topic for your continuing lessons in Swiss civics. Who owns the land a- in the cities and villages, b- out in the countryside, c- in the high mountains? And another question- how are taxes charged to support the contonal government and the federal government? Thanks. Bob Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: Culturechat digest, Vol 1 #24 - 8 msgs > Send Culturechat mailing list submissions to > culturechat@untours.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > culturechat-request@untours.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > culturechat-admin@untours.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Culturechat digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A foreigner in his own country (Anita Killen) > 2. Re: A foreigner in his own country (Vance Roy) > 3. RE: A foreigner in his own country (oosterman@cableone.net) > 4. A Comment on Muslim Rage (WesTexas@aol.com) > 5. Re: A foreigner in his own country (Boris Sojka) > 6. (no subject) (Kraut907@aol.com) > 7. Garden Gnomes (Vance Roy) > 8. Re: Garden Gnomes (Joan Herriges) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:07:05 -0600 > From: Anita Killen > To: Vance Roy > CC: culturechat > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > > Yes, a lot of people are nicer since 9/11, but there are still a lot of crazies > running around out there - especially drivers who can't stand to have a > car in > front of them and so they weave in and out of traffic and refuse to > yield. And > the kidnappings and theft and murders and things like that are the same > as they > always were - I don't think 9/11 has changed that. But I hardly read > the paper > anymore because my fragile mind just can't deal with the horrid stuff > going on > all over the world. I'm doing well to do what I can to improve things > in my > own little world. > > People you meet in the grocery store and other places do seem to be more polite > and considerate. > > Can't comment on Boston. > > In my part of the world the plastic bags are just as recyclable as paper bags. > All paper, including newspapers and junk mail get picked up at the curb. > So do > glass and plastic #1 and #2 containers and broken down corrugated boxes. > Plastic bags go back to the grocery store and put in a recycle bin. > > But the fact remains that the USA is probably the leading country in > being a > throw-away society - each generation seems to want more material goods -more > toys when they're little and bigger and better houses and cars when they're > older. > > Like you say, different cultural differences. > > Anita > > > > Vance Roy wrote: > > > OK, first the disclaimer. If you think me a traitor, don't bore anyone about > > it but me. You can send what you like as a private message. Some of you know > > how I like to wear my asbestos underwear. > > > > I have been in USA four days now. Am I mistaken or are people a bit nicer to > > each other since 9/11? It hit me between the eyes in Boston as I entered MY > > country again after many months. You may know that in the late 60's, I was a > > prisoner of war in Boston. Almost never left. > > > > Our country has become a multi language country since I left in 1994. There > > have been a lot of voices in the USA for a long time. I knew that already, > > but it is more apparent each time I return. What the Heck! I live in a 3/4/5 > > language country anyway. > > > > Folks in RI have always been a cut above the New England "brusqueness", so > > Newport is still Newport. Mansions, great accents, wonderful traffic > > courtesy, lousy streets and sidewalks, beautiful trees and beaches, what I > > call Rhode Island "lick and promise work", overpriced places to eat and play > > (not so bad in the off season), and I especially like it because I don't > > have to get my "Boston personality" on before I walk in somewhere. > > > > Funny though. I know folks over the whole USA that recycle. As some of you > > know, the Swiss are big on this. Today, we went to the grocery and asked for > > paper instead of plastic bags. What did we get? We got paper bags filled > > with groceries AND STUFFED INTO PLASTIC BAGS!! We just laughed. > > > > I still run around turning off lights, wonder at the amazing number of cars > > with only one person on the roads, am amazed at the great variety of goods > > in places like Walmart (One of my favorite places to waste time), don't want > > to be here if gasoline gets to be 10$ a gallon, but I cannot find a bakery > > in the whole town comparable to those Swiss places. > > > > I'll probably write more about this. I am still learning a lot about "my > > country". If you read this as unpatriotic, so be it. I don't see it that > > way. I just realize how different things can be. It is a "culture thing", I > > suppose. After all, we are still all together on the same ball. > > > > Vance Roy > > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This message was sent by Culturechat. > > To reply or send a new message, email to: > > Culturechat@untours.com > > > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > From: Vance Roy > To: > CC: culturechat > > Vance Roy at gigli.saw@dplanet.ch wrote: > > I spent my time in BOS in 1969-71. The U. S. Navy "asked" for my assistance, > and I spent two years developing my Boston personality and living amongst > the natives. It was a rewarding experience and had opportunities been right, > I would have stayed in NH or VT close by the city. > > My first Boston experience was in a cab on the way from logan to the > Children's hospital. On Storrow drive, we got into a jam (isn't there always > one there?). My driver got and beat the daylights out of another cab driver, > got back in the cab, and drove me onward. I wondered if I should have upped > the tip because he came out on top in the fight. Now, remember, I was > directly out of a residency in Memphis, TN. (you know, that Mississippi > River backwater town?). Where I came from Bostonese brusqueness was called > bad manners at best. Cabbies didn't try to kill each other. > > Then there was the time that I asked a drugstore clerk where the toothpaste > was. I interrupted an obviously important conversation she was having with > another employee leaning on a counter with her. She acted like I had crawled > from under a rock, and her language wasn't very nice. I wasn't sure where > she was going to put the toothpaste when she gave it to me. > > Of course, with Tennessee plates on my car (military did not have to have MA > registration), I was fair game for the daily game of dodge em cars to and > from work. I learned downtown Boston by going in on Sunday AMs and driving > around. I realized that a native Bostonian had been correct when he told me > that the streets had been laid out by a maddened dogcatcher. This was when > The Big Dig was yet a gleam in the politician's eyes. Now, traffic is just a > real chinese fire drill. > > Then there was the time that I went into a sub shop. This was long before > subs were known in the South (always capitalized). The guy treated me like I > had just arrived from another planet and had left my fly open. > > The final blow came one morning when a woman (hesitate to use lady here) cut > me off at an intersection, flipped the universal sign at me, and then > laughed. I resolved that the very next so and so I could find was going to > taste the bumper of my car. I spent the rest of my two years there trying to > hit someone. I concluded that Bostonese have 360 degree peripheral vision > and can escape any assault. > > I also found out that the same drugstore clerk, mentioned above, responded > very well to abuse. If I walked in and said, "I need nothing that would be > found in this &^%(* dump" (you are welcome chat Gestapo), she would break > her neck trying to make me happy. That was how I started to develop my > Boston personality and vastly improved my cussing vocabulary. > > Those were the days of Vietnam, the Bruins, Bobby Orr, Stanley Cups two > years in a row, and the old Boston Gaaaaden. "The family" lived in Revere, > MA so every so often a house would mysteriously blown up while the family > was away for the weekend. This was the Mafioso way of saying, "straighten > up". We were one of two Gentile families in our building, so I gained > insight into wonderful Jewish feasts and recipes. My two toddlers developed > such great Yankee accents that they had to have elocution sessions when we > returned to Alabama. They were the hit of the kindergarten when they showed > up to show the little Yanks a stalk of real cotton from West Tennessee. The > other little apes thought cotton came ready made as cloth. Cultural > interchange was underwy. > > Now, I am in a real quandary. I tried my Boston tactics on someone at Logan > last week, and I thought he was going to cry. Can it be that the old Boston > has gone soft?? In my previous life there, hostility meant you cared enough > to be one of them. > > Leslie, I hope you take this in the proper spirit as it is written. I agree > with what you say in general. Are you sure we are talking about the same > Boston? The one in Massachusetts? > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > From: > To: , "Vance Roy" > Cc: "culturechat" > Subject: RE: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:57:43 -0700 > > Vance et al, we lived in a Boston suburb all our lives until we moved to this small town in the mountains of Arizona eight years ago, so your stories and others are a delight to us as we recall a faster paced life. And yes, we did have to change our driving habits, especially making left turns in front of oncoming traffic when the light turns green - that is a definite no-no in most other parts of the country, with the possible exception of NYC. However, my husband did "revert" to his old habits last week and got a ticket for cutting off a State Trooper. Oh well, such is life in the slow lane! Astrid O. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "culturechat-admin@untours.com" on behalf of "Vance Roy" > Sent: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +0100 > To: "Laeink@aol.com" > Cc: "culturechat" > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > > Vance Roy at gigli.saw@dplanet.ch wrote: > > I spent my time in BOS in 1969-71. The U. S. Navy "asked" for my assistance, > and I spent two years developing my Boston personality and living amongst > the natives. It was a rewarding experience and had opportunities been right, > I would have stayed in NH or VT close by the city. > > My first Boston experience was in a cab on the way from logan to the > Children's hospital. On Storrow drive, we got into a jam (isn't there always > one there?). My driver got and beat the daylights out of another cab driver, > got back in the cab, and drove me onward. I wondered if I should have upped > the tip because he came out on top in the fight. Now, remember, I was > directly out of a residency in Memphis, TN. (you know, that Mississippi > River backwater town?). Where I came from Bostonese brusqueness was called > bad manners at best. Cabbies didn't try to kill each other. > > Then there was the time that I asked a drugstore clerk where the toothpaste > was. I interrupted an obviously important conversation she was having with > another employee leaning on a counter with her. She acted like I had crawled > from under a rock, and her language wasn't very nice. I wasn't sure where > she was going to put the toothpaste when she gave it to me. > > Of course, with Tennessee plates on my car (military did not have to have MA > registration), I was fair game for the daily game of dodge em cars to and > from work. I learned downtown Boston by going in on Sunday AMs and driving > around. I realized that a native Bostonian had been correct when he told me > that the streets had been laid out by a maddened dogcatcher. This was when > The Big Dig was yet a gleam in the politician's eyes. Now, traffic is just a > real chinese fire drill. > > Then there was the time that I went into a sub shop. This was long before > subs were known in the South (always capitalized). The guy treated me like I > had just arrived from another planet and had left my fly open. > > The final blow came one morning when a woman (hesitate to use lady here) cut > me off at an intersection, flipped the universal sign at me, and then > laughed. I resolved that the very next so and so I could find was going to > taste the bumper of my car. I spent the rest of my two years there trying to > hit someone. I concluded that Bostonese have 360 degree peripheral vision > and can escape any assault. > > I also found out that the same drugstore clerk, mentioned above, responded > very well to abuse. If I walked in and said, "I need nothing that would be > found in this &^%(* dump" (you are welcome chat Gestapo), she would break > her neck trying to make me happy. That was how I started to develop my > Boston personality and vastly improved my cussing vocabulary. > > Those were the days of Vietnam, the Bruins, Bobby Orr, Stanley Cups two > years in a row, and the old Boston Gaaaaden. "The family" lived in Revere, > MA so every so often a house would mysteriously blown up while the family > was away for the weekend. This was the Mafioso way of saying, "straighten > up". We were one of two Gentile families in our building, so I gained > insight into wonderful Jewish feasts and recipes. My two toddlers developed > such great Yankee accents that they had to have elocution sessions when we > returned to Alabama. They were the hit of the kindergarten when they showed > up to show the little Yanks a stalk of real cotton from West Tennessee. The > other little apes thought cotton came ready made as cloth. Cultural > interchange was underwy. > > Now, I am in a real quandary. I tried my Boston tactics on someone at Logan > last week, and I thought he was going to cry. Can it be that the old Boston > has gone soft?? In my previous life there, hostility meant you cared enough > to be one of them. > > Leslie, I hope you take this in the proper spirit as it is written. I agree > with what you say in general. Are you sure we are talking about the same > Boston? The one in Massachusetts? > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: WesTexas@aol.com > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:00:30 EST > To: culturechat@untours.com > Subject: [Culturechat] A Comment on Muslim Rage > > The Core of Muslim Rage > Commentary by Thomas L. Friedman > > The latest death toll in the Indian violence between Hindus and Muslims is > 544 people, many of them Muslims. Why is it that when Hindus kill hundreds of > Muslims it elicits an emotionally muted headline in the Arab media, but when > Israel kills a dozen Muslims, in a war in which Muslims are also killing > Jews, it inflames the entire Muslim world? > > I raise this point not to make some idiot press critique or engage in cheap > Arab-bashing. This is a serious issue. In recent weeks, whenever Arab Muslims > told me of their pain at seeing Palestinians brutalized by Israelis on their > TV screens every night, I asked back: Why are you so pained about Israelis > brutalizing Palestinians, but don't say a word about the brutality with which > Saddam Hussein has snuffed out two generations of Iraqis using murder, fear > and poison gas? I got no good answers. > > Because the real answer is rooted in something very deep. It has to do with > the contrast between Islam's self-perception as the most ideal and complete > expression of the three great monotheistic religions �" Judaism, Christianity > and Islam �" and the conditions of poverty, repression and underdevelopment in > which most Muslims live today. > > As a U.S. diplomat in the Middle East said to me, Israel �" not Iraq, not > India �" is "a constant reminder to Muslims of their own powerlessness." How > could a tiny Jewish state amass so much military and economic power if the > Islamic way of life �" not Christianity or Judaism �" is God's most ideal > religious path? > > When Hindus kill Muslims it's not a story, because there are a billion Hindus > and they aren't part of the Muslim narrative. When Saddam murders his own > people it's not a story, because it's in the Arab-Muslim family. But when a > small band of Israeli Jews kills Muslims it sparks rage �" a rage that must > come from Muslims having to confront the gap between their self-perception as > Muslims and the reality of the Muslim world. > > I have long believed that it is this poverty of dignity, not a poverty of > money, that is behind a lot of Muslim rage today and the reason this rage is > sharpest among educated, but frustrated, Muslim youth. It is they who > perpetrated 9/11 and who slit the throat of the Wall Street Journal reporter > Danny Pearl �" after reportedly forcing him to declare on film, "I am a Jew > and my mother is a Jew." > > This is not to say that U.S. policy is blameless. We do bad things sometimes. > But why is it that only Muslims react to our bad policies with suicidal > terrorism, not Mexicans or Chinese? Is it because Arab-Muslim conspiracy > theories state that Jews could not be so strong on their own �" therefore the > only reason Israel could be strong, and Muslims weak, is because the U.S. > created and supports Israel? > > The Muslim world needs to take an honest look at this rage. Look what it has > done to Palestinian society �" where the flower of Palestinian youth now > celebrate suicide against Jews as a source of dignity. That is so bad. Yes, > there is an Israeli occupation, and that occupation has been hugely > distorting of Palestinian life. But the fact is this: If Palestinians had > said, "We are going to oppose the Israeli occupation, with nonviolent > resistance, as if we had no other options, and we are going to build a > Palestinian society, schools and economy, as if we had no occupation" �" they > would have had a quality state a long time ago. Instead they have let the > occupation define their whole movement and become Yasir Arafat's excuse for > not building jobs and democracy. > > Only Muslims can heal their own rage. But the West, and particularly the > Jewish world, should help. Because this rage poses an existential threat to > Israel. Three broad trends are now converging: (1) The worst killing ever > between Israelis and Palestinians; (2) a baby boom in the Arab-Muslim world, > where about half the population is under 20; (3) an explosion of Arab > satellite TV and Internet, which are taking the horrific images from the > intifada and beaming them directly to the new Arab- Muslim generation. If 100 > million Arab-Muslims are brought up with these images, Israel won't survive. > > Some of this hatred will remain no matter what Israel does. But to think that > Israel's exiting the occupied territories �" and abandoning its insane > settlement land grab there �" wouldn't reduce this problem is absurd. > > Israel cannot do it alone. But it has to do all it can to get this show off > the air. It would take away an important card from the worst Muslim anti- > Semites and it would help strengthen those Muslims, and there are many of > them, who know that the suicidal rage of their fanatics is dragging down > their whole civilization. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > From: "Boris Sojka" > To: , , > , > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:52:04 -0800 > > I seem to remember a book written in the 70's or 80's called "Wild in the > Streets". It had to do with Boston drivers and it's main theme was, "If you > don't like my driving, stay off the sidewalks." > On the positive side, driving in Boston was excellent practice for driving > in Istanbul. > > Boris Sojka > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] A foreigner in his own country > > > > Now guys is it really necessary to keep complaining about Bostonians. > Just > > cuz you can not figure out how to drive our streets does not mean we do > not > > like visitors. See I truly believe regardless of where you are, people > react > > to you as you react to them. If you are horrified by the traffic, noise, > > etc. that comes through loud and clearand is coneyed more ways than be > words. > > If you are hostile, negative, whatever that also comes through loud and > > clear. > > Bostonians are just an independant bunch of people who are caught up in > the > > hustle and bustle of working, a lousey commute (big dig generated), and > > generally just very busy. We are cross cultural community with many types > of > > backgrounds, economic means, and ways of dealing with working and livinig > in > > a city. > > stop anyone of us on the street and 9 out of 10 times the person will > take a > > moment and help you out. Pretty much the same percentage you find other > > places as well. > > Remember because it is not familiar it does not mean that it is bad or > > horrible or that the people fit that category either. Open minds, bring > open > > hearts. Give it a shot > > afterall that is one of the main reasons we all travel with idyll. > > Leslie > > _______________________________________________ > > This message was sent by Culturechat. > > To reply or send a new message, email to: > > Culturechat@untours.com > > > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: Kraut907@aol.com > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:12:17 EST > To: culturechat@untours.com > Subject: [Culturechat] (no subject) > > Hi, Vance, I can't comment on Boston, having been there only once. But I had > a friend from there who drove like a maniac and almost got us killed when we > , in DC, went to a Washington Capitals/ Boston Bruins hockey game, and he > stood up and cheered for the Bruins. > But apropos feeling like a foreigner - that I can relate to! I have been a > US citizen since 1964 and have lived here since '59, but I guess my soul will > always remain German. When I visit Germany every year or so, I feel somewhat > disoriented. > I have come to believe that being an immigrant is not the easiest thing in > the world. One is somehow in an in-between state of mind or, as they say in > the old country, one "sits between two chairs". Sigrid. > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:36:14 +0100 > From: Vance Roy > To: > Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes > > Many visitors to CH in the summer notice the gardens of vegetables and > flowers. Some comment on the little statues often seen in these gardens. > These little funny looking things are called "Zwerge". Exactly what their > function is is a puzzle to me. Anyway, I have a couple of my own. They range > in size from 6 inches or so to a couple of feet and are dressed in colored > garb like one would expect on a minature clown. There are an estimated > 15,000,000 of these little guys across Europe, mostly in Germany and CH. > > It seems that now a german company has decided to produce a female garden > gnome. I had never noticed them to be all males, but I guess until now, they > were. There is a Basel group called the International Association for the > Protection of the Garden Gnome, and these folks are fit to be tied about > this gender change in garden gnomes. They got so mad that they fined the > manufacturer, an outfit called Griebel, the sum of CHF 100. They paid up but > defended their choice to make female gnomes. Apparently, these gnomes are > decorative only. Even if you talk badly to your gnome, he will just sit > quietly and nothing serious will happen. > > So, the next time your are cruising along the garden paths in Germany or CH, > tip your cap or wave at the gnomes and look for girls (gnomies that is). > > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 8 > From: "Joan Herriges" > To: "Vance Roy" , > Subject: Re: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes > Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:03:51 -0800 > > Aha! These "garten zwergs" have been carry-on's on 5 trips home. There are > 15 lurking in our garden. Their function is to remind us of happy times and > beautiful gardens in Switzerland, Germany and Austriai. Some have names > that remind us of specific buying locations, such as "Thuner", "Landi", > "Vevey". We have the "Boss" and "Marin Joe" (near Neuchatel). We have > actually taken longer rail journeys to a super Migros near Marin-Neuchatel > to get the best selection. They are whimsical, and everyone who visits > whips out the camera. > > The best brand are Zehos, made in Austria. They even ship worldwide. > Certainly believe in gender equity---but will have to ponder this situation > carefully. > > By the way, the prestigious U.K. Chelsea Flower Show bans gnomes in their > show gardens--can you believe it! > > Thanks for the smile! Cheers. Joan. > > I > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vance Roy" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:36 AM > Subject: [Culturechat] Garden Gnomes > > > > Many visitors to CH in the summer notice the gardens of vegetables and > > flowers. Some comment on the little statues often seen in these gardens. > > These little funny looking things are called "Zwerge". Exactly what their > > function is is a puzzle to me. Anyway, I have a couple of my own. They > range > > in size from 6 inches or so to a couple of feet and are dressed in colored > > garb like one would expect on a minature clown. There are an estimated > > 15,000,000 of these little guys across Europe, mostly in Germany and CH. > > > > It seems that now a german company has decided to produce a female garden > > gnome. I had never noticed them to be all males, but I guess until now, > they > > were. There is a Basel group called the International Association for the > > Protection of the Garden Gnome, and these folks are fit to be tied about > > this gender change in garden gnomes. They got so mad that they fined the > > manufacturer, an outfit called Griebel, the sum of CHF 100. They paid up > but > > defended their choice to make female gnomes. Apparently, these gnomes are > > decorative only. Even if you talk badly to your gnome, he will just sit > > quietly and nothing serious will happen. > > > > So, the next time your are cruising along the garden paths in Germany or > CH, > > tip your cap or wave at the gnomes and look for girls (gnomies that is). > > > > Vance Roy > > gigli.saw@dplanet.ch > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This message was sent by Culturechat. > > To reply or send a new message, email to: > > Culturechat@untours.com > > > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > > > To unsubscribe, change to digest delivery, or > > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > This message was sent by Culturechat. > To reply or send a new message, email to: > Culturechat@untours.com > > Visit the CultureChat archives: > http://mailman.dca.net/pipermail/culturechat/ > > To unsubscribe, change to regular delivery, or > temporarily pause delivery, visit: > http://mailman.dca.net/mailman/listinfo/culturechat > > End of Culturechat Digest > From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Sun Mar 24 15:47:55 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:47:55 +0100 Subject: [Culturechat] Re: Culturechat digest, Vol 1 #24 - 8 msgs In-Reply-To: <004701c1d2cf$c2474b40$116e9e18@chartertn.net> Message-ID: <81C34ACE-3F3E-11D6-9CEE-0003936A3F2E@aiconnect.com> Hi Bob, Good questions! The tax monies collected in CH are mostly kept in the local communities and cantons. There is a small direct Federal tax. On the other side of the coin, these local entities are responsible for a lot of things such as healthcare, road repair, social services, and social security and pension funds. Land ownership is more complicated. There is private, community, Kantonal, and federal ownership. In the alps, most of the land is owned by the community and rented to farmers on a lottery type drawing. Private ownership is limited mostly to the lower areas. Because a lot of land in CH is vertical and not suited for much use, the cost of land is obscene by US standards. This is a general idea not the gospel always, because each kanton is almost autonimous. Slowly, ever slowly, the federal authority is seeking to become more of the Santa Claus as in the USA. On Sunday, March 24, 2002, at 02:03 AM, Bob Miller wrote: > > Sometime when you have a few minutes, I have another topic for your > continuing lessons in Swiss civics. Who owns the land a- in the cities > and > villages, b- out in the countryside, c- in the high mountains? And > another > question- how are taxes charged to support the cantonal government and > the > federal government? > Vance Roy > gigli.saw@planet.ch From kim.paschen@untours.com Wed Mar 27 21:56:16 2002 From: kim.paschen@untours.com (Kim Paschen) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:56:16 -0500 Subject: [Culturechat] French Easter facts Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20020326141052.009d7a40@pop3.norton.antivirus> --=====================_29549818==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For all you fellow Francophiles... I came across this article in my weekly Bonjour Paris e-newsletter. It=20 explains the French variations on some upcoming holidays. Enjoy! Kim Paschen French Team Flying Bells, April Fish, and Large Pink Bunnies by Christiann Anderson March 2002 Easter--In France they call it P=E2ques, and for several weeks prior to this= =20 holiday, shop windows are decorated in a glorious collection of white and=20 dark chocolate rabbits, chickens, bells and fish. In fact, bells and fish=20 are an important part of the French Easter tradition. Poisson d'Avril: Chocolate Fish make their appearance on April 1st, when=20 French children play their version of the 'April Fool's'' prank by sticking= =20 a paper fish to the back of the nearest adult, they then run away yelling=20 Poisson d'Avril! Literally, =91=91fish of April''. This French version dates= =20 back several centuries. It is believed that the original fish trick=20 involved sending the =91'victim'' to the market to buy freshwater fish when= =20 it was out of season. Hence, the April Fish =91'fool'' and the evolution of= a=20 mischievous trick. The chocolate-inspired window displays in Paris during Easter are so=20 glorious that it would be easy to think that the French actually invented=20 chocolate. They did not. However, they do take the art of chocolate making= =20 and the appreciation of this intoxicating confection to its highest level.= =20 The French seem to have a chocolate mold for every season. From Valentine's= =20 Day to Christmas, this flavoured cacao never goes out of fashion in the=20 City of Light. Cloche Volant (Flying Bells): It is believed, in French Catholic tradition,= =20 that on Good Friday, all the church bells in the country fly to Rome=20 carrying with them the misery and grief of those who mourn Jesus'=20 crucifixion on that day. These air-born bells return on Easter morning in=20 celebration of Jesus' resurrection, bringing with them chocolate and eggs.= =20 These ''goodies'' are left in gardens for French children to hunt when they= =20 awake. Subsequently, no bells in France ring from Good Friday to Easter=20 morning. Most of my American friends in the US find this French tradition of bells=20 and fish, a very strange concept indeed. Yet most of us from North America= =20 grew up believing in a large bunny rabbit that would hop into our home,=20 while we slept, to deposit jellybeans, and chocolate eggs in a large basket= =20 filled with cellophane grass. Mr. Bunny would either leave our baskets at=20 the foot of our beds, or in a spectacular display on the dinning room=20 table. Therefore, instead of the flying bells from France filling our=20 gardens with goodies, it was a gregarious, burrowing, leporid mammal doing= =20 the job. When I was a child, decorating Easter Eggs was as exciting to me as waiting= =20 for Santa Claus at Christmas. Easter television programmes were always old= =20 film =91'epics'' such as The Ten Commandments or The Song of Bernadette,=20 while, in the kitchen, large pots of boiling water filled the house with=20 steam. The cooking of Easter eggs was the only part of the holiday that the= =20 adults controlled. Except for cleaning up all the spilled egg dye that did= =20 not make it onto the dozens of hard cooked ovals. In addition to the=20 creating the many egg-theme meals that magically appeared on Easter Monday.= =20 Such as Devilled Eggs, and the infamous, egg-salad sandwiches. Thanks to=20 all those beautifully coloured eggs we prepared for Mr. Bunny. Oddly, I do= =20 not recall ever actually eating these eggs. My focus was on the chocolate=20 version. Egg dying material was rather limited in mid-1960. But, for a few nickels,= =20 our parents purchased a small yellow box of coloured dye. All the packages= =20 contained primary colours and came with a little =91'egg-holder'' that=20 suspiciously resembled a bent wire coat hanger. For a few extra cents, you= =20 could buy decals of little rabbits and baby chicks to stick on the eggs. If= =20 you were artistic in any way, wrapping a rubber band around your egg,=20 before dipping, created a =91'wild'' pattern that made your egg a very=20 special work of art. When I shared this story with my American friend=20 Karen, and her eight-year-old daughter Marla, who was born and raised in=20 Paris; Marla threw her head back in raucous laughter and left the room=20 wiping the tears from her eyes. Karen, on the other hand, had a look of=20 fond nostalgia and a smile. This year I suggested to Karen that we get together with all of our=20 American friends and their French children and celebrate Easter and the=20 spring with a mixture of American tradition with a French flair. The adults= =20 will share their fond memories of past celebrations and the true meaning of= =20 Easter with the children. The children will tell the adults what spring=20 means to them and share stories and laughter with their friends. Then we=20 shall all give thanks for the exultant joys of spring, our appreciation and= =20 love of family and friends, and share a wonderful meal together. Dinner=20 will be followed by the beautiful bounty of chocolate eggs, rabbits, fish,= =20 and bells; and Mr. Bunny will meet the Flying Bells for this first spring=20 of 2002 right here in Paris. For more on Christiann Anderson, see her biography. Copyright =A9 Paris New Media, LLC To subscribe to the Bonjour Paris eNewsletter, send a blank email message=20 to bpnews-join@bparis.com. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Untours - Independent Travel With Support! Tel.: 888-UNTOUR-1 Web: Join IdyllChat, an email discussion group on European travel! Visit: "Most Generous Company in America, 1999" awarded by Newman's Own & George magazine. For information on the Idyll Development Foundation, visit: --=====================_29549818==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For all you fellow Francophiles...
I came across this article in my weekly Bonjour Paris e-newsletter. It explains the French variations on some upcoming holidays. Enjoy!

Kim Paschen
French Team

Flying Bells, April Fish, and Large Pink Bunnies
by Christiann Anderson
March 2002

Easter--In France they call it P=E2ques, and for several weeks prior to this holiday, shop windows are decorated in a glorious collection of white and dark chocolate rabbits, chickens, bells and fish. In fact, bells and fish are an important part of the French Easter=20 tradition.

Poisson d'Avril: Chocolate Fish make their appearance on April 1st, when French children play their version of the 'April Fool's'' prank by sticking a paper fish to the back of the nearest adult, they then run away yelling Poisson d'Avril! Literally, =91=91fish of April''. This French version dates back several centuries. It is believed that the original fish trick involved sending the =91'victim'' to the market to buy freshwater fish when it was out of season. Hence, the April Fish =91'fool'' and the evolution of a mischievous trick.

The chocolate-inspired window displays in Paris during Easter are so glorious that it would be easy to think that the French actually invented chocolate. They did not. However, they do take the art of chocolate making and the appreciation of this intoxicating confection to its highest level. The French seem to have a chocolate mold for every season. =46rom Valentine's Day to Christmas, this flavoured cacao never goes out of fashion in the City of Light.

Cloche Volant (Flying Bells): It is believed, in French Catholic tradition, that on Good Friday, all the church bells in the country fly to Rome carrying with them the misery and grief of those who mourn Jesus' crucifixion on that day. These air-born bells return on Easter morning in celebration of Jesus' resurrection, bringing with them chocolate and eggs. These ''goodies'' are left in gardens for French children to hunt when they awake. Subsequently, no bells in France ring from Good Friday to Easter morning.

Most of my American friends in the US find this French tradition of bells and fish, a very strange concept indeed. Yet most of us from North America grew up believing in a large bunny rabbit that would hop into our home, while we slept, to deposit jellybeans, and chocolate eggs in a large basket filled with cellophane grass. Mr. Bunny would either leave our baskets at the foot of our beds, or in a spectacular display on the dinning room table. Therefore, instead of the flying bells from France filling our gardens with goodies, it was a gregarious, burrowing, leporid mammal doing the job.

When I was a child, decorating Easter Eggs was as exciting to me as waiting for Santa Claus at Christmas. Easter television programmes were always old film =91'epics'' such as The Ten Commandments or The Song of Bernadette, while, in the kitchen, large pots of boiling water filled the house with steam. The cooking of Easter eggs was the only part of the holiday that the adults controlled. Except for cleaning up all the spilled egg dye that did not make it onto the dozens of hard cooked ovals. In addition to the creating the many egg-theme meals that magically appeared on Easter Monday. Such as Devilled Eggs, and the infamous, egg-salad sandwiches. Thanks to all those beautifully coloured eggs we prepared for Mr. Bunny. Oddly, I do not recall ever actually eating these eggs. My focus was on the chocolate version.

Egg dying material was rather limited in mid-1960. But, for a few nickels, our parents purchased a small yellow box of coloured dye. All the packages contained primary colours and came with a little =91'egg-holder'' that suspiciously resembled a bent wire coat hanger. For a few extra cents, you could buy decals of little rabbits and baby chicks to stick on the eggs. If you were artistic in any way, wrapping a rubber band around your egg, before dipping, created a =91'wild'' pattern that made your egg a very special work of art. When I shared this story with my American friend Karen, and her eight-year-old daughter Marla, who was born and raised in Paris; Marla threw her head back in raucous laughter and left the room wiping the tears from her eyes. Karen, on the other hand, had a look of fond nostalgia and a smile.

This year I suggested to Karen that we get together with all of our American friends and their French children and celebrate Easter and the spring with a mixture of American tradition with a French flair. The adults will share their fond memories of past celebrations and the true meaning of Easter with the children. The children will tell the adults what spring means to them and share stories and laughter with their friends. Then we shall all give thanks for the exultant joys of spring, our appreciation and love of family and friends, and share a wonderful meal together. Dinner will be followed by the beautiful bounty of chocolate eggs, rabbits, fish, and bells; and Mr. Bunny will meet the Flying Bells for this first spring of 2002 right here in Paris.

For more on Christiann Anderson, see her biography.

Copyright =A9 Paris New Media, LLC
To subscribe to the Bonjour Paris eNewsletter, send a blank email message to bpnews-join@bparis.com.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

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Tel.: 888-UNTOUR-1 Web: <www.untours.com>

Join IdyllChat, an email discussion group on European=20 travel!

Visit: <www.untours.com/idyllchat/>

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--=====================_29549818==_.ALT-- From house@sunline.net Thu Mar 28 20:00:55 2002 From: house@sunline.net (Sam Cole) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:00:55 -0500 Subject: [Culturechat] (no subject) Message-ID: <003301c1d693$45e11500$a0fad740@oemcomputer> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1D669.5C7D24E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable email address: House@sunline.net ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1D669.5C7D24E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

email address: =20 House@sunline.net

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C1D669.5C7D24E0-- From giglisaw@aiconnect.com Sun Mar 31 16:22:51 2002 From: giglisaw@aiconnect.com (Vance Roy) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:22:51 +0200 Subject: [Culturechat] The "new" Swiss National Airline Message-ID: <8C72E510-44C3-11D6-9A99-0003936A3F2E@aiconnect.com> Today, the first flight of "Swiss", the Phoenix arising from the ashes of the old SwissAir landed in Zurich. Of course there is a lot of enthusiasm about this, but I think true to their nature, the Swiss people will be a bit skeptical although supportive. It is a leaner if not meaner venture. There are 130 machines flying 126 long haul routes. The USA is served through gateways in Boston, New York, Miami, Chicago, Washington, and Los Angeles. I am uncertain if Newark remains, but I believe it does. Atlanta, San Francisco, and Dallas are history. Over the next few years, there are to be new Airbuses added, and the MD-11s are to be sent elsewhere. The watchword is to be quality, and that spells good news for most of us who ride in "steerage" or economy as some would call it. For instance, glass will replace the plastic for drinks. Wine in all classes will come out of regular size bottles, not miniatures. There is to be proper cutlery used with meals (look out for those of us to and from the USA, I'll bet the plastic knives will remain for obvious reasons). New inflight entertainment consoles in economy will come with the new Airbuses. In any event, service and class are to be the rule even with us peons. Business class is to be expanded and modernized, and the twelve first class seats will be cut to eight. The ever shrinking leg room will begin to expand. All this sounds great, and I expect it to come to fruition, but time will tell. I rode over on 5 March to Boston in SwissAir on an Airbus 330. I expect to go back in early May on the same plane with possibly a new paint job. It will be October before all paint and logo changes are completed. I found SwissAir to be the same as far as service, etc. was concerned, and I anticipate the Swiss flight will be the same. I think it may be like Newport in the winter off season. People here are glad to see you. Vance Roy gigli.saw@dplanet.ch